Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

Some of the speed of Madrid's process can't realistically be copied here, particularly the part about the politicians making a decision in 24 hours!
 
Is there any way the portion to York U could be opened temporarily for the pan ams? I foresee that being a major problem when that comes around.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Is there any way the portion to York U could be opened temporarily for the pan ams? I foresee that being a major problem when that comes around.
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Based on the original schedule - yes as commissioning would be well underway (scheduled to start in February 2015). Based on the current schedule ... looks like York Station is a big part of the problem ... but the biggest issue is that commissioning doesn't begin until March 2016. So I don't see any way of doing, without breaking existing contracts into separate contracts for different pieces, which would then put the budget in danger.

Now, if the Pan Am game operator, sponsors, or province wants to come up with a few hundred million to try and expedite it - then perhaps there's a way. But I don't see that this is likely.

It is a shame that we will be opening a subway to one of the main game facilities about 12 months after the games. But they've been saying publicly for years already that it won't be ready for the games, so no-one should be bothered really. And look at London. The new Crossrail underground express train from Heathrow to the Olympic facility won't open until 2018 - even though at one point it was thought critical to London's bid for the 2012 games - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/3041823.stm
 
^^
Probably not, considering that the construction of the York U station is the major bottleneck; the construction of the station is pending to start in Jan 2013 (accoring to the TTC report above), while other stations have been constructed for some time now.
 
nfitz said:
Based on the original schedule - yes as commissioning would be well underway (scheduled to start in February 2015). Based on the current schedule ... looks like York Station is a big part of the problem ... but the biggest issue is that commissioning doesn't begin until March 2016. So I don't see any way of doing, without breaking existing contracts into separate contracts for different pieces, which would then put the budget in danger.

Now, if the Pan Am game operator, sponsors, or province wants to come up with a few hundred million to try and expedite it - then perhaps there's a way. But I don't see that this is likely.

It is a shame that we will be opening a subway to one of the main game facilities about 12 months after the games. But they've been saying publicly for years already that it won't be ready for the games, so no-one should be bothered really. And look at London. The new Crossrail underground express train from Heathrow to the Olympic facility won't open until 2018 - even though at one point it was thought critical to London's bid for the 2012 games - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/3041823.stm
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There is no real need to have the subway open for the Pan Am games. The existing bus service isn't an enormous problem during Rogers Cup events. Since the athletics stadium will be at York U as well the bus route #196 will probably be pretty packed at the end of major events, but it isn't the end of the world. Hopefully athletics events and tennis events can have start and end times staggered to reduce bus overcrowding. Buses to UTSC where several venues will be located will probably be hugely overcrowded as well but we will manage.

Similarly, the push to have the airport rail link open for the Pan Am games is BS. Most of the Pan Am venues are not in downtown Toronto. This resulted in a lousy design (diesel trains and an airport spur that can't handle regular GO trains) whereas delaying it a few years could have permitted electrification, a bigger airport station and more service improvements for Brampton/Kitchener.
 
andrewpmk said:
This resulted in a lousy design (diesel trains and an airport spur that can't handle regular GO trains) whereas delaying it a few years could have permitted electrification, a bigger airport station and more service improvements for Brampton/Kitchener.
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It's been delayed for years already ... the RFP was issued in 2001! The electrification is planned - and the foundations for the airport station were constructed back in 2004 or so, when this was first planned (as part of the LINK train construction) - so making the airport station bigger has been a non-starter for about a decade.
 
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M II A II R II K said:
Some of the speed of Madrid's process can't realistically be copied here, particularly the part about the politicians making a decision in 24 hours!
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Or the accelerated expropriations process or complete lack of EA's.

It sounds like Madrid can go from "nothing" to excavating for a TBM in a couple of weeks. Tunnel engineering might be completed while the TBM pit is dug.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Is there any way the portion to York U could be opened temporarily for the pan ams? I foresee that being a major problem when that comes around.
Click to expand...

vz64 said:
^^
Probably not, considering that the construction of the York U station is the major bottleneck; the construction of the station is pending to start in Jan 2013 (accoring to the TTC report above), while other stations have been constructed for some time now.
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I wonder though, if the York U main station is the most valuable one regarding the Pan Am Games. Aren't the tennis centre and the new track stadium towards the north end of the campus?

If it were possible to get the Steeles West (oops, Black Creek Pioneer Village) station early by the games....and have trains from Downsview run express (even if you have to stop construction for a few weeks at the stations in between) to SWBCPV station .....would that not be of some use?
 
Wait tell the other shoe falls when it is told how over budget this line will be.

No surprise to me about both shoes as I said it would be years ago.

Madrid made it happen at all cost, as they knew it had to be done. Using only 1 TBM and one tunnel really help the schedule.

TTC could never build a station to match Madrid, even the concourse level.
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TOareaFan said:
I wonder though, if the York U main station is the most valuable one regarding the Pan Am Games. Aren't the tennis centre and the new track stadium towards the north end of the campus?

If it were possible to get the Steeles West (oops, Black Creek Pioneer Village) station early by the games....and have trains from Downsview run express (even if you have to stop construction for a few weeks at the stations in between) to SWBCPV station .....would that not be of some use?
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Ignoring the stations - if they won't be ready to start running the first test train on the track until March 2016, how would you do this 9 months earlier, without increasing spending on some of the track, signals, and other contracts?
 
nfitz said:
Ignoring the stations - if they won't be ready to start running the first test train on the track until March 2016, how would you do this 9 months earlier, without increasing spending on some of the track, signals, and other contracts?
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Having never built a subway, I have to answer "i don't know". From a laymen's point of view, though, it would seem (very simplisticly) that by that time they would be very close to completion.....a rejigging of the schedule to have the track's/tunnels completed by then and focus attention on completing the one station and just delay everything else....have the trains run straight through as express from Downsview to SWBCPV.

I get that the current "open everything at the same time" schedule makes this impossible but is there another approach....one that has people using the subway to get to this fairly important games node (important because track and field is one of the high profile sports of any multi-sport games and tennis will be high profile because, well it is in latin America and it is one of the few events where we have a "major league" facility in use for these games). As it is now we will be encouraging locals to drive to the events (we won't actually be saying "please drive" but locals will) and visitors will be transfering from subways to buses

It just seems poor and (if it were possible) we should probably be trying to avoid it.
 
TOareaFan said:
Having never built a subway, I have to answer "i don't know". From a laymen's point of view, though, it would seem (very simplisticly) that by that time they would be very close to completion.....a rejigging of the schedule to have the track's/tunnels completed by then and focus attention on completing the one station and just delay everything else....have the trains run straight through as express from Downsview to SWBCPV.
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How do you do that without adjusting the contracts, which would cost more money? That's the big issue. Who would pay for extra money to try and expedite a portion of this?

Something might well be technically doable to provide limited service for Steeles West. But at what cost, and most importantly, who would pay for it?
 
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