Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
The only place a Bloor extension would overlap with GO is from Kipling to Dixie. Beyond that there's no reason for overlap since it would presumably follow Dundas the rest of the way.
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What? Look at a map, even by Hurontario the two corridors are within a kilometre of each other. There's not much in the way of serving through this stretch either that bus services alone could not sustain. LRT at best.

Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Or it might follow Bloor, which would be more direct. Regardless of alignment, and even if the subway and GO were side-by-side the entire time, they serve different markets and are completely different services. How people don't understand this baffles me. One doesn't replace one with the other. They coexist. Like in Madrid or any other place with regional rail.
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What's baffling is this misconception that REX is in anyway meant to be as infrequent as the present day GO transit services. There are no different markets either. Remove the double fare barrier and a wider cross-section of riders would flock in droves to ride commuter-rail. Why? Because its 3x faster than the subway. And unless you live east of Dixie, the connecting bus ride to Islington is no walk in the park either. So all in all, the roughly 90 minutes it takes to get from MCC to the CBD via the Bloor-Danforth today could be reduced to just under an hour by a direct B-D extension to SQ1 but it's only 35 minutes via REX.

Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Your idea of transferring at Dundas and Hurontario to the Hurontario LRT to reach MCC is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. SOS is fighting to remove the transfer to get to SCC, yet you want to institute one in Mississauga? No thanks.
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Arguably if Dundas also has LRT and it intercepts the Huronatrio corridor through an underground station at Dundas-Hurontario, then direct interlining may be possible. Transfer resolved. Also a transfer poses little havoc so long as headways are kept frequent which is typical of higher-order transit operating in exclusive ROW. So heading into SQ1 we could have northbound trips assigned PC GO > Cooksville > MCC; and East Mall > Dixie GO > Cookville > MCC. That there isn't already a direct Dundas-Hurontario service to SQ1 already is puzzling because so many riders use the 19S just to transfer onto the Dundas bus. In grade-separated conditions headways could be kept very frequent, perhaps every 3 minutes or better. It'd almost be like a subway in every sense of the word, except that long-haul commutes into Toronto are left up to REX commuter-rail which can run at headways of every 5 minutes and can transfer customers off to points on the subway system prior to the downtown (Kipling; Dundas West; Queen-Dufferin on the DRL line).

You have to emphasize what specific major nodes are being neglected via the above mentioned scenario that only a Bloor-Danforth subway extension can elixir? Otherwise you just come off as a rebel without a cause. VCC is history and RHC is not completely guaranteed. I still think that they, like Suaga, need to invest more in their preexisting rail corridor service before asserting multibillion dollar subway projects that the government can't afford. There's a fundamental difference between them and corridors/destinations such as Eglinton, DRL and SCC... and no, it has nothing to do with municipal boundaries.
 
I have resisted participating in this......

....because discussing connecting MCC to the subway inside a thread about the Spadina extension could be interpreted as being opposed to the Spadina extension if, by chance, you were in favour of an MCC extension.

Not sure there is a connection (unless you count the very loose "they are both in the 905" sorta connection).

Is there somewhere else to talk about the higher-order-transit possibilities for Mississauga/Peel rather than in a thread about Spadina?
 
Rainforest said:
The speed won't change, as S-LRT will still run in fully segregated ROW and at the same speed as SRT.
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That's the theory - but there's a major disconnect with what we are being told. We are told that the Eglinton LRT will only run at 30 km/hr in the very straight, tunnellized section. But the current SRT averages 35 km/hr, despite two very tight curves, and the slow service between Scaborough Centre and McCowan ... it's closer to 40 km/hr when you remove the terminal turnaround time.

Either the LRT will be able to run faster than 30 km/hr between Laird and Keele, or the SRT is going to be slower than the current equipment; they can't have it both ways.

Rainforest said:
What will remain is the transfer at Kennedy, which is a nuisance for many riders.
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It will, but there's no indication of what the new design is going to be; the SRT and/or Eglinton lines could very well be in the Mezzanine, resulting in only changing one level, instead of three. And there could also be through service from the SRT down Eglinton, meaning that many passengers won't have to change at all.
 
nfitz said:
That's the theory - but there's a major disconnect with what we are being told. We are told that the Eglinton LRT will only run at 30 km/hr in the very straight, tunnellized section. But the current SRT averages 35 km/hr, despite two very tight curves, and the slow service between Scaborough Centre and McCowan ... it's closer to 40 km/hr when you remove the terminal turnaround time.
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Couldn't the difference simply be stop spacing? There is no stretch of the Eglinton tunnel with stop spacings like you see between Eglinton and Lawrence, and Lawrence and Ellesmere.
 
EnviroTO said:
Couldn't the difference simply be stop spacing? There is no stretch of the Eglinton tunnel with stop spacings like you see between Eglinton and Lawrence, and Lawrence and Ellesmere.
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No ... we discussed this previously in either the Eglinton LRT or the Scarborough RT threads.

The TTC-scheduled service for the 2.4 km from Ellesmere to McCowan is 4 minutes. That's 36-km/hr for an average 800-metre spacing, despite the curve between Ellesmere and Midland.

Either the SRT will runner with the LRT equipment proposed for Eglinton, or Eglinton will run faster.
 
^ But maybe the posted SRT schedule is not very accurate. Anyway, those 2.4 km / 4 min - distance is too short for the timing to be accurate.

I'd think that the average for the whole SRT - 35 kph, 6.4 km - is a better measure.

And then, the average stop spacing for the whole SRT is 1.3 km, while for the tunneled part of Eglinton it will be 0.8 km.

If SRT had Eglinton-like stop spacing, it would have 3 more stations. Assuming 30 s dwell time at each station, and 10 s lost at each station for deceleration / acceleration, that would add 120 s to the trip duration.

And that, in turn, would reduce the travel speed from 35 kph to exactly 30 kph.
 
Rainforest said:
^ But maybe the posted SRT schedule is not very accurate. Anyway, those 2.4 km / 4 min - distance is too short for the timing to be accurate.
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It seems resonable though ... if you check the timing for the shorter legs in Vancouver it's similiar. There, the entire system averages 45 km/hour on the Expo line; reducing the stop spacing to 800 metres doesn't make it 30 km/hr.
 
Fresh Start said:
What? Look at a map, even by Hurontario the two corridors are within a kilometre of each other. There's not much in the way of serving through this stretch either that bus services alone could not sustain. LRT at best.
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You can easily say the same thing for both the Spadina and Yonge extensions beyond Steeles.



What's baffling is this misconception that REX is in anyway meant to be as infrequent as the present day GO transit services. There are no different markets either. Remove the double fare barrier and a wider cross-section of riders would flock in droves to ride commuter-rail. Why? Because its 3x faster than the subway. And unless you live east of Dixie, the connecting bus ride to Islington is no walk in the park either. So all in all, the roughly 90 minutes it takes to get from MCC to the CBD via the Bloor-Danforth today could be reduced to just under an hour by a direct B-D extension to SQ1 but it's only 35 minutes via REX.
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I think anyone most people who would take GO if it was true REX are already taking it. You might get some people switching, but I don't think it would be a huge change, especially in Mississauga where a lot of people are already GO riders and not MT riders, whereas in Toronto you have a lot of TTC riders and not GO riders. Getting on the GO isn't the problem. It's local transit that's the problem.

And how do you figure it takes 35 minutes to Square One via REX? The GO train is 35 minutes to Erindale, and 30 minutes to Cooksville from Union. It takes more than 5 minutes to get to MCC from Cooksville via public transit. Add to that wait times and it's even longer. But still, you're comparing to Union, but a lot of people are destined for Union.

Regardless, people will take whatever is convenient for them and what makes sense for where they're going. No matter how frequent GO is, it won't matter if it doesn't go where they're going. In no way, shape or form does a subway to MCC preclude REX, or vice versa.
 
I would like to see updates on this project and not hear rants about a subway to MCC. Please try to stay on topic.
 
Groundbreaking Today

from today's press release....

For release - November 27, 2009

Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension moves forward

TORONTO — Construction is now underway on a new link that will connect the future Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension (TYSSE) mainline to the existing Wilson Subway Yard and expand yard storage facilities.

The Honourable Jim Flaherty, Canada's Minister of Finance; the Honourable Jim Bradley, Ontario Transportation Minister; His Worship David Miller, Mayor of Toronto; Toronto Transit Commission chair Adam Giambrone; and Her Worship Linda Jackson, Mayor of Vaughan, on behalf of York Region chair Bill Fisch, celebrated the groundbreaking today at the Wilson Yard connection site.

"Prime Minister Harper announced funding to expand Toronto's subway line to help the city's public transit system remain world-class and accessible for generations to come," said Minister Flaherty. "With shovels in the ground today, this project is helping us right now in the midst of a global economic downturn by creating good local jobs."

"The McGuinty government is undertaking the largest public transit build-out in Ontario's history so that more people can leave their cars at home and take transit," said Minister Bradley. "For the sake of our quality of life, economy and our environment, we are building a bigger, better subway system across municipal boundaries to support the millions of commuters who depend on this system."

"We are making transit progress on many fronts in the City of Toronto. Today, as we break ground with our funding partners for the Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension, we literally cross a new boundary in public transit delivery. This will be the first subway system that crosses a municipal border linking Toronto and York Region. It will eventually give hundreds of thousands of daily commuters new transportation options while reducing gridlock on our roads and smog in our air," said Mayor Miller.

"The Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension is an important part of the TTC's overall expansion plans across the city and region, which will increase service to riders of subways, streetcars and buses alike, while adding LRT with its transformative Transit City program. Riders tell us consistently that making service more reliable and regular is the most important thing we can do to improve their travel, and ultimately the liveability of their city," said Mr. Giambrone. "The TTC is proud to work with its funding partners to extend rapid transit infrastructure like the Wilson Yard extension and improvement into new neighbourhoods."

"This is another significant step forward that will help meet the Greater Toronto Area's future network needs," said Chairman Fisch. "As York Region continues to grow and mature, it is imperative to have the proper infrastructure and resources in place for both residents and businesses today and in the future."

The Government of Canada is contributing $5.5 million to this portion of the project. This contribution is part of the federal government's overall $697-million federal commitment to the subway extension and is also a major component of FLOW, the Government of Canada's transportation action plan for the GTA.

The Province of Ontario has provided approximately one-third of the funding for this component of the project. This contribution is part of the province's $870 million for the subway extension through the Move Ontario Trust. Through the 2009 Ontario budget, the province is investing $32.5 billion in infrastructure over the next two years, creating 50,000 jobs.

The City of Toronto and The Regional Municipality of York have committed to funding one-third of the total project costs, of which Toronto will contribute $526 million and York Region will contribute $352 million.

For more information about Canada's Economic Action Plan, visit www.actionplan.gc.ca.

Learn how the Government of Ontario is helping build and revitalize infrastructure across the province at www.mei.gov.on.ca/en/infrastructure/.
 
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I love how the politicians refer to our transit system as world class, and how it will relieve congestion and make everything better. It will do no such wonders, but still needs to be built.

My question is, I keep hearing different opening years for this. The groundbreaking report stated it will open in 2015, but another TTC report (I forget which one) says 2016. The report on CTV mentioned something stupid by stating it was 'phase 1' of the extension, which I didn't quite get what they meant by that, since it will all open at once.

In any case, it's about time construction gets started on this line. It has been talked about to death, funded for many years now, so finally we get to see 6 years of construction.
 
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