TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
Again with this discussion I think the problem is that the riders crossing borders to head to York University shouldn't be the ones facing the brunt of this regional ineptitude towards fare integration. The end-user experience should be seamless, regardless of underlying problems of regional transit system.
Well said - that was my macro point. There are legit arguments to be made about how we fund cross-border travel etc. but all these political debates have unfair, real-world consequences for riders. To ignore them to explain that it's actually fair because of lines on maps and such, is (as I said) an acknowledgement of a fundamental failure by those responsible for transit in this region. START by thinking about the system's riders. In the meantime. every day it goes on at York is an embarrassing exposure of that failure.
Obviously Toronto expands service as a real-estate and political maneuver too; several examples of white elephant projects in the past. The difference is Toronto (via property taxes) has also paid the price (annually) to have service run.
They pay 25% of the cost. That means if a YR rider gets on at Finch and pays a $3 fare and a Torotonian does too, the Torontonian is contributing an additional 75 cents or so, each time. Not nothing but not enough to get high and mighty about, IMHO. If a Torontonian gets on YRT, BTW, they're getting a 40% free ride; if that's how we're determining what "paid the price" means. Of course, the math shouldn't be that simple because there are inumuerable economic benefits from reducing congestion and having people work and spend money downtown (or in the 905, for that matter); but we try to pretend it can be reduced to this simple calculus.
York Region got their cake from the province, convinced Toronto to pay for delivery of the cake, and now they're hoping for a repeat of that with Yonge while at the same time YRT riders complain to Toronto about paying double fares.
It's a fundamental issue that exists because of geography. Politics aside, I think most people can see the "unfairness" of charging a double fare for someone travel from just south of 7 to just north of Finch, which is where most of YR's population is. As I've said before, if you were looking at a satellite map and designing the transit system based on that, you would never draw a line at Steeles because there is no line to be preceived. The urban form is unbroken there. It's a seam, nothing more.
Anyway, as I said, I think the entire region should be paying into a pool (e.g. through road pricing) and then Torontonians would lose the barely-there, "we're paying for your transit..." (as if no other economic benefits follow) argument. If the argument is for fair funding, I'm down with that. But in the meantime, it shouldn't be used as a cudgel with which to hammer students and others who are suffering for the system's inefficiencies.
That multi-billion dollar BRT network which runs 15 minute frequencies most of the day is another example of mostly flash, no bang.
It ain't perfect - what is? - but evaluating it this early demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of its purpose. I'm sure ridership at Finch Station was through the roof in 1975, right? Too bad we didn't have these boards for people to complain about empty trains and how they'd extended the subway to a suburb with no density the way they're judging TYSSE here like the deal is done.