Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

[Streety McCarface]

It would be good to get data on how much ridership the condos along Sheppard have created.

Not much according to 2016 statistics (the line's ridership has pretty much been flatlined since ~2008), but transit ridership along the corridor doubled when the subway was built (which is indeed impressive). I'm somewhat sceptical of the 2016 numbers, as a lot of growth occurred in density during 2017 and this year. Ever since the TR trains have been operating on the line, trains seem more full, not less. It'll be interesting to see ridership statistics from 2017 and 2018 when they are released next march and the march after that. 2018 will be especially interesting with TYSSE station counts showing up for the first time.

 

[Transportfan]

from what I have seen, ridership to Vaughan Centre is actually much higher than I expected. Nothing crazy.. but more than expected.

But that could be because of the YRT bus connections being moved there from the original idea to have the connections at 407.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

But that could be because of the YRT bus connections being moved there from the original idea to have the connections at 407.

I see a significant number of people walking to/from the condos that have been completed and even a few walking from the light industrial businesses north of walmart. Not front and bay levels of pedestrian traffic but enough. Cant speak to transfer numbers from yrt/viva though.

 

[Streety McCarface]

What will really set the extension into york region is if GO Transit and YRT fare integration occurs. In this case, significantly more people will use 407, VMC and PV for bus transfers since it doesn't hit their wallet as much. Only time will tell if Ford will allow this to happen.

 

[nfitz]

My observations were based solely on a comparison between visual train capacity and station usage. Most stations on the TYSSE see fewer than 5 passengers waiting for a train in one direction. This is significantly worse than the current Sheppard subway, which can often see upwards of 5 people waiting for a train per station at bayview and Leslie. Don mills has very decent ridership that can easily fill half a train’s maximum capacity.

Peak or non-peak?

I used to work near Leslie, and at peak, I used to take the bus (as it was more convenient), but off-peak (late nights!) I ended up walking to Leslie - and while the Sheppard subway did appear to get some decent peak usage, I seldom would see 10-15 at Leslie in the evening! And Leslie seemed busier than either Bessarion OR Bayview (presumably as there was the hospital nearby driving off-peak ridership).

While I wouldn't be surprised if there's more peak ridership on Sheppard than TYSSE - I get the impression that there's a lot more off-peak ridership - at least that's what I thought, riding it southbound on a weekday evening.

And I thought the very old ridership projections did show that TYSSE service wasn't as peak-dependent.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Peak or non-peak?

I used to work near Leslie, and at peak, I used to take the bus (as it was more convenient), but off-peak (late nights!) I ended up walking to Leslie - and while the Sheppard subway did appear to get some decent peak usage, I seldom would see 10-15 at Leslie in the evening! And Leslie seemed busier than either Bessarion OR Bayview (presumably as there was the hospital nearby driving off-peak ridership).

While I wouldn't be surprised if there's more peak ridership on Sheppard than TYSSE - I get the impression that there's a lot more off-peak ridership - at least that's what I thought, riding it southbound on a weekday evening.

And I thought the very old ridership projections did show that TYSSE service wasn't as peak-dependent.

I can see the TYSSE getting a lot of off-peak ridership during special events (ie Jay's Games), otherwise, you won't find any more than 7 people on a train north of Sheppard West during the off peak or outside of class times. That's just my experience anyways.

Off peak/Late night, sheppard doesn't seem to get any worse than the old Toronto portion of the BD line (2-5 people per station, with the exception of bessarion). It's not amazing, but it's not horrible. Again, let's see where the TYSSE is in a few years and when the ridership numbers come out.

 

[TOareaFan]

I can see the TYSSE getting a lot of off-peak ridership during special events (ie Jay's Games), otherwise, you won't find any more than 7 people on a train north of Sheppard West during the off peak or outside of class times. That's just my experience anyways.

We are having different experiences clearly....I have only used it about 10 times, and I would in no way suggest the trains are "full" or "very busy" but 7 persons per train is way low from my experience.....I don't think I have been in a car with that few people never mind a whole train......of course I typically only take it up to either 407 or York.

That said, there are a lot of events that this train will make sense for....I think what we are seeing are the early adopters but more will follow. Last night, as an example, I went to a concert at the Scotiabank Arena with 3 other guys...one of them is a partner at a major law firm with a parking spot downtown....but from his Kleinburg home he drove to VMC to catch the subway....cause it is easier......so think about how many events there are in the city and expand it beyond the Jays and when you say it will be useful for special event nights you are really saying "just about every night"....because in Toronto there are events going on just about every night.

The other thing this extension has is events going the other way.....really looking forward the tennis at York this year.....for the first time ever I won't have to leave my office downtown by 4 to ensure I get to the stadium in time to grab a bite to eat before an evening session. I would suspect (hope?) that people are looking at York University and the facilities it has as a easier to access venue for events now.

I am not a "subways, subways, subways" guy (far from it)....but the extension as far as York U made a lot of sense to me and will, I imagine, make sense numerically in short order....the bigger challenge is North of the Pioneer village station .....but somehow I think that will ultimately make sense...it will just take more time.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Serious question, why don't the station signs have the street names underneath them? At Vaughan Metropolitan Centre and Pioneer Village Stations, they should indicate Highway 7 and Steeles Ave below them. They have this for the Downtown Stations, why not for the new extension with station names that aren't the street names (or points of interest)?

 

[Neutrino]

That said, there are a lot of events that this train will make sense for....I think what we are seeing are the early adopters but more will follow. Last night, as an example, I went to a concert at the Scotiabank Arena with 3 other guys...one of them is a partner at a major law firm with a parking spot downtown....but from his Kleinburg home he drove to VMC to catch the subway....cause it is easier......so think about how many events there are in the city and expand it beyond the Jays and when you say it will be useful for special event nights you are really saying "just about every night"....because in Toronto there are events going on just about every night.

Interesting, why did he choose the subway over Barrie GO?

 

[TOareaFan]

Interesting, why did he choose the subway over Barrie GO?

Same reason a lot of people do....you are not "tied to a schedule".....he had stuff to do during the day.....when it ended he drove to the subway without consulting a schedule with the knowledge that he would get a train in a few minutes.

 

[nfitz]

I can see the TYSSE getting a lot of off-peak ridership during special events (ie Jay's Games), otherwise, you won't find any more than 7 people on a train north of Sheppard West during the off peak or outside of class times.

With classes mid-day and evenings, that drives a lot of off-peak use right there. Not to mention the constant stream of GO buses into 407 Station.

Off peak/Late night, sheppard doesn't seem to get any worse than the old Toronto portion of the BD line (2-5 people per station, with the exception of bessarion). It's not amazing, but it's not horrible. Again, let's see where the TYSSE is in a few years and when the ridership numbers come out.

Living near Danforth - that is absolutely not my experience in my regular off-peak Line 2 rides! I'm always amazed at how many people ride with me a midnight!

Sure Chester station is a bit quiet sometimes ... but most stations are not Bayview quiet!

 

[Leo_Chan]

I asked about the street name under the station names at platforms on Twitter, and this was the answer:

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Interesting, why did he choose the subway over Barrie GO?

There's a 6 hr gap in service in the mid to late afternoon on the barrie line. There likely wasnt a train scheduled that would get him downtown for 7 ish when the doors open for the concert.

Taking a look at the schedule. Assume he would be using king city go as his "closest" station. Thats assuming king city is closer more convenient to get to than VMC. Which may not necessarily be true depending on where in kleinburg he is coming from and given the road network in the area.

The last southbound train leaves king city at 1:50 with a 2:30 arrival, the next southbound train is 8:50. Either he arrives 5 hours early or 1 hour late. Then at the end of the night the last train leaves at 10:40. That concert went to 10:45 IIRC and so he either misses the train and takes the bus, or leaves early missing the encore.

Kind of makes the decision a no brainer.

 

[Neutrino]

There's a 6 hr gap in service in the mid to late afternoon on the barrie line. There likely wasnt a train scheduled that would get him downtown for 7 ish when the doors open for the concert.

Taking a look at the schedule. Assume he would be using king city go as his "closest" station. Thats assuming king city is closer more convenient to get to than VMC. Which may not necessarily be true depending on where in kleinburg he is coming from and given the road network in the area.

The last southbound train leaves king city at 1:50 with a 2:30 arrival, the next southbound train is 8:50. Either he arrives 5 hours early or 1 hour late. Then at the end of the night the last train leaves at 10:40. That concert went to 10:45 IIRC and so he either misses the train and takes the bus, or leaves early missing the encore.

Kind of makes the decision a no brainer.

No, the concert TOAreaFan was referring to occurred on Sunday when Barrie has hourly all day service.

 

[Richard White]

I feel like 15-minute service and countdown clocks are all you really need to not be "tied to a schedule"

Just remember to cut the green wire..