Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

[Markster]

Yes, I would consider dedicated bus lanes, to direct multiple routes to the subway terminus.

A surface subway extension might be problematic because the E-W traffic would have to get across somehow. Subway won't stop at traffic lights, while bridges or underpasses would probably require too much space.

A surface extension of the subway would be very much like the LRT in Calgary or Edmonton. It would likely run in-median, with signal priority and rail crossing arms at intersections. I would expect any service up there to be at best 10 minute frequency, which won't interfere with cross traffic too much.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

But the question is, outside of the need (should I say desire) for a transfer-free connection, is a subway even justified??? I mean we are already talking about 5000 passengers per day on the line North of Steeles. I would say demand North of 7 would be less than half that.

Really, once the subway is complete the VIVA Orange line south of 7 will not be needed. YRT could simply extend the VIVA Purple route West to the current terminus of VIVA Orange. Then re-route VIVA Orange to run North on Jane from VMC to Canada's Wonderland (and beyond?).

 

[W. K. Lis]

But the question is, outside of the need (should I say desire) for a transfer-free connection, is a subway even justified??? I mean we are already talking about 5000 passengers per day on the line North of Steeles. I would say demand North of 7 would be less than half that.

Really, once the subway is complete the VIVA Orange line south of 7 will not be needed. YRT could simply extend the VIVA Purple route West to the current terminus of VIVA Orange. Then re-route VIVA Orange to run North on Jane from VMC to Canada's Wonderland (and beyond?).

There will be no transfer-free connections north of Steeles on the Spadina extension. Only TTC buses will continue to have a transfer-free connection, but only at Steeles. Non-TTC buses at Steeles will have to "pay".

Most likely, I can see most GO buses that come from the north coming in to the VMC station. From the west, they'll probably use the 407 station. I can see the GO bus terminal at Yorkdale being reduced in status as a terminal for GO.

Don't know if GO buses on the 407 have to pay a toll or not. If GO has to pay a toll, that would be factored into the individual fares.

 

[gweed123]

There will be no transfer-free connections north of Steeles on the Spadina extension. Only TTC buses will continue to have a transfer-free connection, but only at Steeles. Non-TTC buses at Steeles will have to "pay".

Most likely, I can see most GO buses that come from the north coming in to the VMC station. From the west, they'll probably use the 407 station. I can see the GO bus terminal at Yorkdale being reduced in status as a terminal for GO.

Don't know if GO buses on the 407 have to pay a toll or not. If GO has to pay a toll, that would be factored into the individual fares.

Yeah, other than a handful of routes, I don't see how any YRT buses will use Steeles. I would think they'd be much more inclined to use VCC or in some cases Highway 407. This is especially true when the Highway 7 Rapidway is finished in that area.

 

[Dan416]

As much as I'd be jealous of Vaughan getting a subway to Wonderland, I actually like the idea. It doesn't need to be tunneled. Just run it at the surface, and elevate over any roads in the way. Have stops only at major intersections. And only run 1/3 of the trains there. The more I think about it the more I like the idea. It would generate awesome business in the summer. In the winter not so much, but it's not infrastructure intensive if it's just a few stops and it's at grade/elevated.

 

[BurlOak]

As much as I'd be jealous of Vaughan getting a subway to Wonderland, I actually like the idea. It doesn't need to be tunneled. Just run it at the surface, and elevate over any roads in the way. Have stops only at major intersections. And only run 1/3 of the trains there. The more I think about it the more I like the idea. It would generate awesome business in the summer. In the winter not so much, but it's not infrastructure intensive if it's just a few stops and it's at grade/elevated.

But if the current extension was entirely tunneled, then politicians would find a way of tunneling this Wonderland extension as well. Maybe with Mr. Sorbera out of the picture though, they actually might consider the less expensive option.

 

[Markster]

As much as I'd be jealous of Vaughan getting a subway to Wonderland, I actually like the idea. It doesn't need to be tunneled. Just run it at the surface, and elevate over any roads in the way. Have stops only at major intersections. And only run 1/3 of the trains there. The more I think about it the more I like the idea. It would generate awesome business in the summer. In the winter not so much, but it's not infrastructure intensive if it's just a few stops and it's at grade/elevated.

Elevated is still far too much infrastructure for this location. At grade is all that would be needed in this industrial wasteland.
I took a look at the bus route it would replace, and it seems to be one that runs every 20 minutes. Needless to say, a train running at my theoretical 10 minute frequencies would appear to be a little overkill.
But, given the price tag of an at-grade extension could be relatively low, it might be something that Vaughan would be interested in, as an investment in (a) connecting employment lands in Concord to downtown Toronto, (b) increasing development value of VMC, (c) increased tourism to Wonderland/Vaughan Mills

 

[gweed123]

Elevated is still far too much infrastructure for this location. At grade is all that would be needed in this industrial wasteland.
I took a look at the bus route it would replace, and it seems to be one that runs every 20 minutes. Needless to say, a train running at my theoretical 10 minute frequencies would appear to be a little overkill.
But, given the price tag of an at-grade extension could be relatively low, it might be something that Vaughan would be interested in, as an investment in (a) connecting employment lands in Concord to downtown Toronto, (b) increasing development value of VMC, (c) increased tourism to Wonderland/Vaughan Mills

It would also be really interesting to see how well a massive parking lot around there (possibly even parts of the Wonderland parking lot during the weekdays) could be used as a Park N Ride from the 400. It may become a viable option for a lot of people, and could generate some additional revenue for Wonderland (renting out their parking lot during the winter).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Elevated is still far too much infrastructure for this location. At grade is all that would be needed in this industrial wasteland.
I took a look at the bus route it would replace, and it seems to be one that runs every 20 minutes. Needless to say, a train running at my theoretical 10 minute frequencies would appear to be a little overkill.

A train running there every two hours would be overkill! As you mentioned, it is replacing a bus route that runs every 20 minutes!

This whole Wonderland subway talk is insane. I can't believe that Vaughan has actually suggested this ridiculous idea. Toronto has to fight for a DRL and Missisauga and Brampton are struggling to get a single LRT line and Vaughan has the audacity to ask for a subway to Wonderland. Give me a break. This must some kind of sick joke. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they request a subway to the middle of a farmer's field.

Anyways, there would hardly be enough ridership to make sense building this joke of an extension. Metrolinx's responce to Vaughan should be the following:

"NO!"


A BRT will do just fine.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

There will be no transfer-free connections north of Steeles on the Spadina extension. Only TTC buses will continue to have a transfer-free connection, but only at Steeles. Non-TTC buses at Steeles will have to "pay".

Most likely, I can see most GO buses that come from the north coming in to the VMC station. From the west, they'll probably use the 407 station. I can see the GO bus terminal at Yorkdale being reduced in status as a terminal for GO.

Don't know if GO buses on the 407 have to pay a toll or not. If GO has to pay a toll, that would be factored into the individual fares.

Nono you misunderstood me. What I meant by a transfer free connection was that a rider boarding the subway at the theoretical Major Mackenzie (Canada's Wonderland) would not need to another mode of transport for the duration of their subway trip. Say instead that an LRT or BRT is built North to Wonderland, than that rider would have to board the VIVA BRT/LRT route to VMC station get off and then transfer (and pay another fare) onto the subway. Much like the situation that will exist once the current extension is complete as you stated, non TTC riders will have to get off their bus, pay a ttc fare, and board the subway.

What I meant was that a subway extension to Wonderland gives riders a one seat ride while any other option leaves riders with a two seat ride for the same given route. Is the benefit of a one seat ride worthwhile for approx 2500 daily riders?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

(a) connecting employment lands in Concord to downtown Toronto, (b) increasing development value of VMC, (c) increased tourism to Wonderland/Vaughan Mills

How many people are employed in Concord? From what I can see there isn't much up there but a few one story industrial warehouses. I would be surprised if more than a few thousand people are employed there. I doubt that it would generate any substancial ridership.

 

[k10ery]

True. I actually put York Region in that sentence initially.

Point remains though. The people who represent Vaughan City Council at York Region, and Vaughan for York Region Transit are willing to kick in funding, convince others in York Region to kick in funding, and have a good record of getting what they ask for.

With Sorbara coming from Vaughan, and the town council's curious links to the construction industry, I guess it is no wonder they might push for subways and get them. But Sorbara's gone now and, who knows?, maybe council is changing its ways under the new mayor.

 

[DKsan]

Vaughan can ask about a subway extension once VIVA Major MacKenzie is actually up and running in a few years and the ridership happens.

 

[Johnny Au]

If Vaughan wants a subway to Wonderland, they should have Ivanhoe Cambridge (owner of Vaughan Mills) and Cedar Fair (owner of Canada's Wonderland) to help pay for the extension (in exchange, Vaughan Mills station would get advertising for Vaughan Mills and Wonderland station would get advertisements for the various attractions at Wonderland (including scale models of the Behemoth and the Leviathan)). In addition, we should ask those at CW Mania what they think of extending the Spadina line to Wonderland.

Wonderland station would allow easy access to Wonderland parking for Vaughan Mills shoppers during the holiday season as well.

Regardless, the above is all meant to be sarcastic.

 

[raptor]

Being serious for a moment, why would Wonderland even agree to have a subway station, not to mention pay for it?
They are making a fortune from their parking lot (is it still $8 per vehicle?). Those who want to Wonderland, drive there today. A subway station would not increase their attendance.