Undead
Senior Member
Shouldn't the scum parents be charged as accessory?!
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Toronto shootings
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The parents may not be scum. Sometimes good parents have bad kids.
afransen
Senior Member
This is a deeply strange incident. It's odd that there have been several female-perpetrated violent assaults in the last week, including this assault on the subway. The teen girl murder is something very strange. Apparently they didn't know each other except through social media, and came from different parts of the city.This town has gone completely bonkers.
So technically not a shooting, but I didnt want to start another thread.
8 teenage girls charged with 2nd degree murder.
They are three 13-year-olds, three 14-year-olds and two 16-year-olds
8 teenage girls charged with second-degree murder after man fatally stabbed in Toronto
Eight teenage girls, some as young as 13 years old, have been charged in connection with a "swarming" attack in downtown Toronto that left a man dead on Sunday.toronto.ctvnews.ca
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Fresco
Active Member
Teen girls charged with murder in Toronto 'swarming' death were after liquor bottle, witness says
An alleged "swarming" attack in Toronto started when the eight teen girls charged in the slaying tried to take a liquor bottle from the victim and his friend, the friend says.
That witness, who CBC Toronto has agreed not to name, said she was smoking a cigarette with the man outside a downtown shelter early Sunday when the group of teens approached them and attempted to take her alcohol.
The 59-year-old victim, who police have not publicly identified, told the girls to leave the two of them alone, the woman said.
"He protected me," she added.
That's when the group of girls started to punch him repeatedly, she recalled. Frightened by the violence, she walked away while one of the girls followed her. She said she could see lots of blood.
"Bleeding, bleeding, bleeding. I didn't know if they had a knife or what. I was just scared," she said. "I think they stabbed his belly."
She said she went into the shelter and brought him water afterwards. "I didn't know he would die," she said.
Local news channel CP24 cited Toronto police Det.-Sgt. Terry Browne as saying that a dispute over a liquor bottle was somehow involved in the initial phase of the deadly encounter.
The attack happened around 12:15 a.m. ET near the corner of York Street and University Avenue, just steps from Union Station.
Teens charged with 2nd-degree murder
At a news conference Tuesday, Browne said the victim was beaten and stabbed by the group, which included three 13- year-olds, three 14-year-olds and two 16-year-olds. All eight have been charged with second-degree murder. Their identities are protected by the Youth Criminal Justice Act.According to Browne, it appears the teens connected on social media, but it's not yet clear how or why they ended up downtown late Saturday and into Sunday morning. They all live in different parts of the city, he said.
Investigators have no evidence that the victim was known to them, Browne added. All of the teens appeared in court on the weekend, with further court appearances scheduled for Dec. 29.
Browne said police wouldn't describe the girls as a gang at this point, but investigators are calling the incident a "swarming," which he said normally involves selecting a target to victimize.
As of Tuesday evening, police were still trying to notify all of the man's next of kin.
Browne said the man had only recently entered into the city's shelter system and that he had supportive family in the area.
"I wouldn't necessarily call him homeless, just recently on some hard luck," Browne said.
His death was the 68th homicide in Toronto in 2022.
Toronto Mayor John Tory said in a statement that he is "deeply disturbed" by the details of the case.
"Everyone in our city deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. I am so saddened to know that a man has lost his life in this way," he said.
"I am extremely troubled by the young age of those accused and by the number of people allegedly involved in this murder. My thoughts are with this man's friends and all those who knew him as they mourn his loss," he added.
Police are appealing for information from anyone who was in the area of the attack between about 10:30 p.m. and 12:30 a.m.
Fresco
Active Member
Today one of the girls was released on bail.
Out of the 8 girls charged, only 2 parents showed up in court to support them.
(per CP24)
Out of the 8 girls charged, only 2 parents showed up in court to support them.
(per CP24)
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gabe
Senior Member
Add to the crazy things going on in the city. This 15 year old boy has been allegedly participating in at least 14 armed robberies.
Undead
Senior Member
That almost none of the parents showed up for their kids in this case is damning.
It is, but I still don’t think “blame the parents” should be the default response whenever a teen does something this awful.
Northern Light
Superstar
I will reserve judgement on the parents and even many of the kids, notwithstanding the awful crime of which they were apart, simply because I would prefer to have more facts before drawing a conclusion.
We can certainly say this was a horrible crime, and regrettably, belatedly, this will merit the intervention of the Courts and sentences, that even w/the youthfulness of many involved will have to be somewhat punitive.
Beyond that, allowing that we can broadly agree the absence of visible parental support in court is not a positive indicator about these kids home lives..........
I will, even absent further facts, once again state that young women should have access to contraception at the earliest possible age for which it is healthy, at no cost. At least some portion of bad parenting can be eliminated by reducing the number of unwanted children, and children of those not yet ready for parenthood.
Doubtless some miserable childhoods and mal-adjusted young adults would still occur; there are no easy solutions that resolve this issue. But I'll take whatever reduction in it can be obtained at reasonable cost.
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As a side note, this thread is labelled Toronto Shootings, and this crime was not a shooting. Perhaps this thread could be re-titled Toronto Crime: Catch-all or some such thing?
Rufus8
Active Member
got to love the deafening silence about this crime, can't imagine why. The girls just wanted booze - maybe Torontonians sympathize with that? Meanwhile a state funeral will take place for a 28 year OPP constable who was murdered by someone who ought to have been in jail but somehow managed to obtain both a car and a gun.
Northern Light
Superstar
What silence? Do tell.
Fresco
Active Member
I cant speak for him, but what I think he means is the girls will be tried under YOA and will get very light sentecnes.
They'll be out in less than 3 to 5 years (if that). And their identities willl never be known
lenaitch
Senior Member
If that's what they, in fact, meant, then they don't understand the Youth Criminal Justice Act (the Young Offenders Act was repealed in 2003). The 13 and 16 years old could, in fact, be sentenced as adults.
Fresco
Active Member
I dont think they are being tried as adults however, because the judge is not releasing their names.
Are you saying they can be tried as young offenders and then still be sentenced as adults??
lenaitch
Senior Member
The concept of 'tried as an adult' no longer exists in Canada. Yes, trials would proceed under the provisions of the YCJA and, if convicted, they could be 'sentenced as adults'. Correction to above - this applies to convicted offenders who are 14 or older, not 13 as I mentioned above.