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Toronto shootings

buildup

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We need to talk about this. Amidst all the great news concerning Toronto - the construction, innovation, influx of immigrants who are adapting and contributing - a ridiculous upsurge in gun violence; Kensington market tonite.
What is the cause of this, and what are we going to do before we lose control? Obviously more police and a return to carding, and severe sentencing for gun crimes.
What else?
 

gabe

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Last night Canadian rapper Smoke Dawg was gunned down in broad daylight in the Queen and Peter area. I wasn't far from there last night on a patio, i heard non stop police and EMS sirens, I knew something major happened.
 

buildup

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Unfortunately, BLM is irrelevant in finding answers, being too distracted by statistically non-existent police killings to dare to lecture living gangsters. Besides, gangsters are certainly even less indulgent than the long-suffering public to post-modern gender theory.
 

buildup

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Last night Canadian rapper Smoke Dawg was gunned down in broad daylight in the Queen and Peter area. I wasn't far from there last night on a patio, i heard non stop police and EMS sirens, I knew something major happened.
Actually two wrappers were killed there, plus another fatal stabbing a mile away. Unrelated.
 

TheKingEast

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Unfortunately, BLM is irrelevant in finding answers, being too distracted by statistically non-existent police killings to dare to lecture living gangsters. Besides, gangsters are certainly even less indulgent than the long-suffering public to post-modern gender theory.
What exactly does BLM have to do with this? Irresponsible and ignorant post. You had an agenda the minute you made this thread.
 

steveintoronto

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We need to talk about this. Amidst all the great news concerning Toronto - the construction, innovation, influx of immigrants who are adapting and contributing - a ridiculous upsurge in gun violence; Kensington market tonite.
What is the cause of this, and what are we going to do before we lose control? Obviously more police and a return to carding, and severe sentencing for gun crimes.
What else?
I'm not so sure that is the answer. In fact, I'm not convinced that there is an answer. A culture of violence and bravado has become 'de rigeur' with a segment of our society. It's immature youth and often from single parent homes copying what they think is 'cool'. There are no simple answers to this,
 

pman

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I'm not so sure that is the answer. In fact, I'm not convinced that there is an answer. A culture of violence and bravado has become 'de rigeur' with a segment of our society. It's immature youth and often from single parent homes copying what they think is 'cool'. There are no simple answers to this,
If only there were a multicultural, English speaking democracy with a large immigrant population that had significantly reduced its homicide rate in spite of a culture of violence and bravado among a certain segment of its society. If such a country existed, then the reasonable among us could ask how they managed it and whether their approach to crime and - trigger alert, un-Canadian language ahead - punishment might work here. But where would we ever find this unicorn?
 

steveintoronto

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If only there were a multicultural, English speaking democracy with a large immigrant population that had significantly reduced its homicide rate in spite of a culture of violence and bravado among a certain segment of its society. If such a country existed, then the reasonable among us could ask how they managed it and whether their approach to crime and - trigger alert, un-Canadian language ahead - punishment might work here. But where would we ever find this unicorn?
It's an excellent question, with a good answer, albeit not "English speaking":

Crime rate in Germany at lowest level in 30 years, but antisemitism is on the rise
But almost half of Germans are more fearful of crime than they were a few years ago
[...]
The German crime rate has fallen by five per cent since last year, hitting its lowest rate since 1992.[...]Last month it was reported that the number of migrants in Germany had reached a record high, with 10.6 million people with foreign citizenship living there.[...]
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-crime-rate-migration-antisemitism-horst-seehofer-a8343226.html

The huge differing factor of there to Toronto? All the immigrant groups in Germany come from nuclear families.

Toronto is saddled with a social grouping from one specific island in the Caribbean, unlike almost all of the other islands. It's not racial, it's societal, and the other islanders also resent and fear the influence and besmirchment from this group.

'Gangsta Music' lives up to its implication.

I have a lot of trepidation putting this into my own words, so here it is from a Jamaican:
Single Parenting In Jamaica
by Nemonie Cassells

Single parenting, just thinking about it makes me uncomfortable. This type of family is ever so present and more acceptable of late all over the world, but it seem to have been a norm here in Jamaica ever since I was a child.

I remember vividly as a toddler living with my mom, it was just her and my older bother. Then my baby sister came along and it was just us four until my dad took me to live with him in the city.

My mother raised my brother and sister all by herself, with little or no financial help, while my father raised me and my younger sister with the help of a nanny for a while.

He eventually got married when I was a teen, but before then, my household would still be considered a single parent household since there was no permanent mother figure.

I am a parent now, and am grateful that I am not raising my children by myself! This however, does not dismiss the effects of being raised in a single parent home and it does not dismiss the fact that thousands of Jamaicans were raised in single parent homes - a lot who are now raising their children in a single parent home themselves!

It is my opinion that, 6 out of every 10 Jamaican families are single parent families, however to get statistical information please see visit this link form Unicef: https://www.unicef.org/jamaica/parenting_corner.html

What Do We Mean By Single Parenting Though?
Single parenting is basically where an unwed, unattached, spouse-less (whichever term you prefer), parent, who takes on most, if not all, of the day to day responsibilities of raising a child/children.

In most cases, you will find that the mothers are the primary care givers in a single parent household in Jamaica.

Whether other family members, such as grandparents (most often the grandmothers), are present in the household it is irrelevant because at the end of the day, they are still NOT the missing parent.

And Why? What Are The Causes Of Single Parenting In Jamaica?
There are different factors that may result in one becoming a single parent here in Jamaica, factors such as the death of a spouse or divorce but the single most common one here is unplanned parenting.

Based on my observation, our Jamaican society does not place great emphasis on “The Family”. We are not a people who stress greatly about the consequences of being raised by only one parent, even though most of us would prefer being raised by, or raise our own children, with both parents present.

And what are some of the effect of single parenting? Read on...

Effects Of Single Parenting In Jamaica
[...]

What Else Does Single Parenting In Jamaica Lead To?
Here is what I've personally observed over the years growing up and living in Jamaica:

  • Often times, you find that juvenile delinquents belong to a single parent home. Therefore single parenting can lead to juvenile delinquency.
  • Adults who were raised in a single parent family often times find it hard to raise a stable family of their own due to not having a good example to follow.
  • Males tend to lack the sense of true responsibility, and in turn, walk out on their own children as their own fathers did.
  • Females often have a fear of having children because they do not want to raise their child or children alone
And here’s what Dr. Ralph Thompson had to say about single parenting in Jamaica when he addressed the Gleaner Editor’s forum: http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20110410/news/news5.html
[...]

https://www.my-island-jamaica.com/single_parenting_in_jamaica.html

This is by no means the entire cause of what we're now witnessing, but take a look at the pics of the shot and the shooters. How anyone can deny that there's a massive social problem within one specific group vastly more than others defies reason...
 
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buildup

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What exactly does BLM have to do with this? Irresponsible and ignorant post. You had an agenda the minute you made this thread.
Fair enough. If there is one thing I'm learning about social media its I tend to 'hate-watch' meaning follow twitter accounts of people who annoy me. I'm guilty of that. For most of my life I've been 'progressive' but BLM Toronto founders aggravate me intensely. For example, one of their leaders posted this in late June (literally during a hail of gang-gunfire):

"Carding kills.
Tasers kill.
End carding now. Disarm the police. It can be done, it should be done, it must be done.
Urgently."

That was not satire, she literally said it! So I'd make the following observations:

1) All races consume illegal drugs. Its only reasonable someone will meet that demand. Its a ruthless business, like all businesses, but it cannot be protected by patents, contract law or the police. So it needs to be protected by violence. I think that is reasonable. Currently blacks are running this, in the past it was Irish, Italians, Hell's Angels, Bronfman's etc. 95% of the victims are 'in the game'.

2) BLM are making the problem worse by promoting the false narrative that police cannot be trusted, are killing blacks etc. Its laughably and statistically absurd. Sadly the University Courses these women have taken are filled with such fictions and victim mentalities. You need to be concenred when a movement is entirely dominated by a tiny social segment in an echo chamber. As far as I can tell 100% of the BLM Founders are black, female and lesbian. That is too concentrated.

3) Fatherlessness is a huge problem. If you finish high school, dont have a child before marraige, get married you will be middle class or better. Instead I see one of the middle-aged men killed in the drug den near Sherbourne hailed as a great father to his 11 children (the number of single mothers not disclosed). These kids have NO CHANCE. That is heart-breaking. BLM will not touch it.

4) People can wail all they want, but there is scant evidence of racism in Toronto. People want to do the right thing, want to give people a chance, public schools exist, health care is free; everyone has running water, electricity, roofs, and police protection. Its all there. I wont admit (its unethical) but if a qualified black walked in here I hire him/her over another Asian in a minute. I dont see the resumes.

So yeah, BLM is a problem because the leaders are far more concerned with monetizing their own 'activist' profiles, at the expense of their communities.
 
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pman

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Re Steve’s post, I was thinking the US but Germany, OK.

In order to test Steve’s proposition, we would need to see crime stats by origin not just of the criminals but also of their parents and grandparents. If what he claims about Jamaicans is true, then the rational policy response would be to curb immigration from Jamaica. But who knows? Maybe all this mayhem is the fault of Korean Canadians. Governments refuse to disclose aggregate information about the race, origin and family background of criminals. For that matter, the press mostly goes to absurd lengths to not disclose the skin colour of criminal suspects wanted by the police, unless they’re white. Canada is incapable of conducting a serious discussion of crime because so much relevant debate, like Steve’s points, would be shouted down as thoughtcrime, and so much information is either uncollected or suppressed.
 

buildup

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Re Steve’s post, I was thinking the US but Germany, OK.

In order to test Steve’s proposition, we would need to see crime stats by origin not just of the criminals but also of their parents and grandparents. If what he claims about Jamaicans is true, then the rational policy response would be to curb immigration from Jamaica. But who knows? Maybe all this mayhem is the fault of Korean Canadians. Governments refuse to disclose aggregate information about the race, origin and family background of criminals. For that matter, the press mostly goes to absurd lengths to not disclose the skin colour of criminal suspects wanted by the police, unless they’re white. Canada is incapable of conducting a serious discussion of crime because so much relevant debate, like Steve’s points, would be shouted down as thoughtcrime, and so much information is either uncollected or suppressed.
BLM and the street gangs have convinced their community that co-operating with police is disloyal and low. That gives the gangs prestige and cover. We could put the 1% away forever if the 99% would assist. If my brother shot up Queen West Id have the police on him in 5 minutes.
 

sixrings

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If there wasn't a code of blue silence blm would not exist. Police say it is a minority of cops that are bad yet no cop turn in bad cops. Why should people speak up for the greater good but the people who are hired to serve and protect never speak up.
 

pman

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If there wasn't a code of blue silence blm would not exist. Police say it is a minority of cops that are bad yet no cop turn in bad cops. Why should people speak up for the greater good but the people who are hired to serve and protect never speak up.
One reason might be that blacks may be disproportionately the victims of crime as well as the perpetrators. We can’t actually know because this information is in the cone of silence. However, anecdotally only, a lot of the murder victims appear black, and a lot of the shooting locations also appear to be majority black neighbourhoods. So, maybe people of all colours should speak up for the greater good because it’s in their self interest.
 

steveintoronto

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One reason might be that blacks may be disproportionately the victims of crime as well as the perpetrators. We can’t actually know because this information is in the cone of silence. However, anecdotally only, a lot of the murder victims appear black, and a lot of the shooting locations also appear to be majority black neighbourhoods. So, maybe people of all colours should speak up for the greater good because it’s in their self interest.
But we have to get past the "Black" label, as many *huge* segments of the Black population want nothing to do with the scum. I even have Jamaican friends who say: "Why do they let this scum into Canada? I left Jamaica to get away from them". It's an established culture in Jamaica, and Canada's "Family Reunification Program" was instrumental in funneling in the dysfunction, while shutting out far more suitable immigrants who would not only assimilate, but thrive here. (Note the date, this issue is evermore relevant)
07/18/2012 05:17 EDT | Updated 09/17/2012 05:12 EDT
You Can't Stop Crime if You Can't Say Who Is Doing it
[...]
The reality is that the groups for whom handguns are a factor of daily life are adept at profiling and making targets of their enemies.

In Toronto, the ones using guns -- and the victims of shootings -- mostly tend to be of Jamaican origin. Police know this, even if they can't say so publicly.

Certainly Jamaicans know it, be they gun-wielding Jamaicans, victims of shootings, or Jamaicans who want no part of gun-culture and deplore violence, and who probably came to Canada to escape such violence in Jamaica itself.

In every election in Jamaica, there are reports of guns being used -- not by the majority, but by the few who give the majority a bad name. It is usually not people from Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya, St. Lucia, Benin, etc. who are addicted to using guns in Canada.

Yes, gang rivalry exacerbates gun violence, and that's an issue for police to handle. Politicians scolding and pronouncing does little -- nor will more basketball courts change the culture. Gangs are immune to reason [...]
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/peter-worthington/toronto-shooting_b_1683102.html
 
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TheKingEast

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It’s ok to single out racial groups as long as it’s across the board. But it doesn’t usually work like that, does it?
 

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