Toronto Rogers Centre Renovations | ?m | ?s | Toronto Blue Jays | Populous
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Hairball
Active Member
I can't see it being fathomable to have a stadium without a retractable roof here. It just seems like a non-starter. I agree the open air stadiums are a lot nicer aesthetically, but given there have always been attendance issues in April, it's a tough sell to expect fans to be sitting outdoors. Sure, being in an dungeon early in the season isn't so great, but if the alternative was to sit in the cold I just wouldn't go.
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G.L.17
Senior Member
I forget if it was the 2015 or 2016 season I looked into, but I was bored one day a few years back and tallied the games with the roof open vs closed. Roof was opened 60% of all home games that season. Assuming that number is consistent give or take 5% per year, there’s somewhat strong justification in having a retractable roof moving forward. As been mentioned before, T-Mobile in Seattle provides a roof, though the left outfield is open-air, which I think would be the best option should they choose a retractable roof.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Rogers/Brookfield request to see plans for both open-air and retractable roof options.
Big Daddy
Senior Member
I remember Exhibition Stadium - it was AWFUL!! Cold, Wet, windy, miserable. Only works when you get great weather and for us to build a stadium hoping for lots of great weather just isn't realistic.
And remember, the reason Minneapolis doesn't have a domed stadium (or a retractable roofed stadium) isn't because they didn't want one - they simply couldn't afford one. It's a much smaller city and a smaller market.
To dream of open air games on a grass field is a wonderful dream - but just a dream in this climate we need a retractable roof. We were the envey of the world when we opened the world's first stadium with a retractable roof - why would we consider anything else?
And remember, the reason Minneapolis doesn't have a domed stadium (or a retractable roofed stadium) isn't because they didn't want one - they simply couldn't afford one. It's a much smaller city and a smaller market.
To dream of open air games on a grass field is a wonderful dream - but just a dream in this climate we need a retractable roof. We were the envey of the world when we opened the world's first stadium with a retractable roof - why would we consider anything else?
G.L.17
Senior Member
Interestingly enough the Twins did pursue a retractable roof in 1997, and would have probably been considered the best retractable roof stadium even in 2020.
Photos from a book I own.
Bogtrotter
Senior Member
That's a nice looking park. It appears it would have been faced in brick like an old traditional style ballpark. Love the arches too. The fact that the roof fully telescopes from over the field would be a big bonus- the least shadows the better.
I hadn't considered that Rogers might be looking at a year-round facility capable of hosting concerts etc. I didn't realize the dome was used that much for concerts.
I hadn't considered that Rogers might be looking at a year-round facility capable of hosting concerts etc. I didn't realize the dome was used that much for concerts.
T.E.C.II
Active Member
Would this new stadium be meant to host concerts in addition to baseball? I assumed it would baseball only.
DopeyFish
Active Member
probably not
it likely wont be multipurpose because stadiums are too big these days for most concerts so they prefer using arenas... hard to compete with scotiabank arena. other things like monster truck rallies aren't popular any more and with the CFL and MLS out of the building now, there's pretty much no point to make it multipurpose anymore.
Big Daddy
Senior Member
A stadium just for baseball is extremely expensive. Most stadium owners look to additional revenues to make the financials work.- which is why Skydome has a concrete floor.(and Astro turf)
Just grass means it is much more difficult to have other activities (that don't ruin the grass)- so a stadium just for baseball has to be much more cost effective.
Just grass means it is much more difficult to have other activities (that don't ruin the grass)- so a stadium just for baseball has to be much more cost effective.
animatronic
Senior Member
That was before the roof upgrade, when they couldn’t move it below 10 degrees. The risk was having everything seize up due to metal contraction and get the roof permanently stuck half-closed.
A number of games each year were warm enough for an open roof, but they had to go off the expected temperature when closing it following extra innings.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
I think there is an interesting case study on stadiums situated more northerly (Seattle, Minneapolis) or at similar latitude (Milwaukee, Boston, Detroit, Chicago x2, Cleveland) to Toronto, vis a vis market demographics. Of those 8 stadiums, only 2 (25%) have retractable roofs (Seattle, Milwaukee). Of the remaining 6; 2 (25%) were built prior to the era of domed stadiums (Boston, Chicago); 2 (25%) were planned/built in and around the same time as Rogers Centre was built (Chicago, Cleveland) and it is likely that the concept of a retractable roof wasn't even a consideration at that time; that leaves the last 2 (25%) that have built new stadiums during the modern era of stadium construction, but did not build a retractable roof (Minneapolis, Detroit); I would argue that Detroit as a market is a traditional baseball market that has a long history (1912 - 1999) of attending baseball games outdoors in all weather. Only the Twins who had played in a domed stadium for nearly 30 years chose to build fully outdoor stadium though the reasoning was financial (none of the Twins, or municipal/regional governments were willing to foot the extra ~$100 million to add a retractable roof), not aesthetics.
I think there is something to be said for the local market and the appetite (or willingness) to watch baseball out in the cold (but dry) spring weather. Cities like Detriot, Chicago, and Boston have over 100 years of having MLB baseball to watch and knowledge of the unpredictable nature of weather. Toronto on the other hand, despite the long history of minor league baseball in town, does not have the history of baseball in town like the above noted cities do. In a way the market has been spoiled by Rogers Centre, I used to work at the Rogers Centre and I can't tell you how many times people would complain to me about the roof being open when the weather outside is clear but cool "ugghhh it's cold can't you close the roof", "Ummm sir/ma'am you had to walk OUTSIDE to get into the stadium. Shouldn't you have dressed for the weather?" I don't think Torontonian's are soft either because TFC fans have braved weather in early March and early December to support their club. It's just that Toronto as a market is only one of 10 cities in North America to have a franchise in 4 major pro sports (Hockey/NHL, Baseball/MLB, Basketball/NBA, Football/CFL, Soccer/MLS) and baseball is probably in a dead heat with basketball as second most popular team. The competition for the discretionary sports dollar is pretty fierce and that's why teams should be doing as much as possible to remove any reason to not attend a game (poor weather). As long as Rogers is footing the bill for the stadium I do think a retractable roof is necessary, however...
It's important to remember that the stadium was designed and built as a domed stadium that can be open when the weather is nice, which is vastly different from an open air stadium that can close during inclement weather. I remember working a game when a rain storm came in unexpectedly and they couldn't close the roof in time. It poured in the stadium for nearly 20 minutes, and, because there was no drainage in the seating bowl the front row of the 200 and 500 levels was just a river an inch and a half deep of rain, and ballpark related garbage (drink cups, beer, pop, popcorn, hot dogs, etc, etc) it was disgusting.
I think there is something to be said for the local market and the appetite (or willingness) to watch baseball out in the cold (but dry) spring weather. Cities like Detriot, Chicago, and Boston have over 100 years of having MLB baseball to watch and knowledge of the unpredictable nature of weather. Toronto on the other hand, despite the long history of minor league baseball in town, does not have the history of baseball in town like the above noted cities do. In a way the market has been spoiled by Rogers Centre, I used to work at the Rogers Centre and I can't tell you how many times people would complain to me about the roof being open when the weather outside is clear but cool "ugghhh it's cold can't you close the roof", "Ummm sir/ma'am you had to walk OUTSIDE to get into the stadium. Shouldn't you have dressed for the weather?" I don't think Torontonian's are soft either because TFC fans have braved weather in early March and early December to support their club. It's just that Toronto as a market is only one of 10 cities in North America to have a franchise in 4 major pro sports (Hockey/NHL, Baseball/MLB, Basketball/NBA, Football/CFL, Soccer/MLS) and baseball is probably in a dead heat with basketball as second most popular team. The competition for the discretionary sports dollar is pretty fierce and that's why teams should be doing as much as possible to remove any reason to not attend a game (poor weather). As long as Rogers is footing the bill for the stadium I do think a retractable roof is necessary, however...
It's important to remember that the stadium was designed and built as a domed stadium that can be open when the weather is nice, which is vastly different from an open air stadium that can close during inclement weather. I remember working a game when a rain storm came in unexpectedly and they couldn't close the roof in time. It poured in the stadium for nearly 20 minutes, and, because there was no drainage in the seating bowl the front row of the 200 and 500 levels was just a river an inch and a half deep of rain, and ballpark related garbage (drink cups, beer, pop, popcorn, hot dogs, etc, etc) it was disgusting.
picard102
Senior Member
Not sure that's the best approach to take for a sport in the decline. They need to do everything possible to encourage people to come to games, more than once.
Pow Wow
New Member
Well, those skyline views from Billy Bishop (see my post on Page 72) — if a stadium was to be built there — would draw me to a game, even if the Jays were terrible at that hypthothetical point in time. Not to mention a revitalized park in that vicinity of Centre Island. It would be worth holding out until 2033, when the contract is up at Billy Bishop, and make a push to build a new stadium on those lands. If the island airport isn’t necessary, as some have mentioned, given the rail link to Pearson, would it be possible for the City, Province, and the Feds (assuming that they would be involved in the plan for a new stadium) to make a deal with Billy Bishop to vacate the land before 2033, thereby expediting the construction of a potential island stadium?
Haljackey
Active Member
The new Raiders stadium in Vegas has grass field even though it is an indoor stadium. The field is on a huge track and is moved outside so it can grow and get sunlight.
en.wikipedia.org
Something like this could be done. Vegas is too hot for an outdoor stadium like Toronto is too cold for one.
If a new stadium is built right like this, it could host more than baseball. Soccer, CFL and possibly even a NFL team could move here. Toronto is a much larger market than NFL cities like Buffalo, Cleveland or Cincinnati.
The NFL team would also get a national fanbase following like the Raptors and Blue Jays as Canada's only team in the league.
Allegiant Stadium - Wikipedia
Something like this could be done. Vegas is too hot for an outdoor stadium like Toronto is too cold for one.
If a new stadium is built right like this, it could host more than baseball. Soccer, CFL and possibly even a NFL team could move here. Toronto is a much larger market than NFL cities like Buffalo, Cleveland or Cincinnati.
The NFL team would also get a national fanbase following like the Raptors and Blue Jays as Canada's only team in the league.
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Bogtrotter
Senior Member
The new Raiders stadium in Vegas has grass field even though it is an indoor stadium. The field is on a huge track and is moved outside so it can grow and get sunlight.
Allegiant Stadium - Wikipedia
Something like this could be done. Vegas is too hot for an outdoor stadium like Toronto is too cold for one.
If a new stadium is built right like this, it could host more than baseball. Soccer, CFL and possibly even a NFL team could move here. Toronto is a much larger market than NFL cities like Buffalo, Cleveland or Cincinnati.
The NFL team would also get a national fanbase following like the Raptors and Blue Jays as Canada's only team in the league.
I'm not sure there would room for moving platforms of grass- but it's a really interesting concept. From what I've read it will be a baseball specific park with real grass a core requirement in order to attract free agents. A lot of players loathe playing on artificial turf due to injuries and the Blue Jays are on many players no trade list for that reason. That said general ignorance about playing Canada is also a factor, but having real grass is not just an aesthetic preference. I think a multipurpose facility like the dome is what they are trying to move away from. That probably doesn't mean it could not be used for the occasional concert- at least I wouldn't think so..?