Toronto Rogers Centre Renovations | ?m | ?s | Toronto Blue Jays | Populous

[Alex L]

Toronto has a basic innate problem - the weather. The dome stays closed a lot because of it. To replace RC with an open-air custom baseball stadium would lead to crappy weather conditions at both ends of the schedule. As nice as it could be designed, it would still have this problem. The Blue Jays first game was played in a snowstorm. Do you really want to go back to that? The open-air baseball stadium in Ottawa has a lovely grass field, but the spectator conditions are often bad. In the spring, cold and damp, in the summer, you bake; in the fall, cold and damp again. After the excitement died down after winning the minor league championship, they could not draw fans at anywhere the previous numbers. Ottawa gets more snow but temperature-wise and climate-wise, it's not that different, i.e. cold and damp in the fall and winter and hot and humid in July and August. You would face basically the same conditions here. I think some sort of retractable roof is mandatory for a pro team in Toronto. It also makes the building usable for events in the off-season.

I think they should investigate if they can rebuild the RC. First, take the existing roof off. Rebuild the stands inside most or all of the exterior, and put a new roof on. You could re-orient the diamond, modify the foul areas, build new boxes and concourses, etc. The rebuild could possibly be done over several seasons. The building is basically super-strong, so as to support the roof, so I think it's doable. The location probably cannot be beat, either.

If the club wants to build in condos as part of the new complex, I have a problem with that. That's public land it sits on. It should be put to public use, not a subsidy for the club and a developer.

 

[Bogtrotter]

It looks like they probably could get a good start on a new park to the south if they secure the land abutting lakeshore. Fenway is to scale on the right. Note this is a small open air park however. But if that is what they are aiming for it doesn't seem unfeasible. If they did the exterior in brick it might even play well with the historic roundhouse and revamped transformer station. Perhaps a new modern convention centre could be incorporated into north end of the site.

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

Toronto has a basic innate problem - the weather. The dome stays closed a lot because of it. To replace RC with an open-air custom baseball stadium would lead to crappy weather conditions at both ends of the schedule. As nice as it could be designed, it would still have this problem. The Blue Jays first game was played in a snowstorm. Do you really want to go back to that? The open-air baseball stadium in Ottawa has a lovely grass field, but the spectator conditions are often bad. In the spring, cold and damp, in the summer, you bake; in the fall, cold and damp again. After the excitement died down after winning the minor league championship, they could not draw fans at anywhere the previous numbers. Ottawa gets more snow but temperature-wise and climate-wise, it's not that different, i.e. cold and damp in the fall and winter and hot and humid in July and August. You would face basically the same conditions here. I think some sort of retractable roof is mandatory for a pro team in Toronto. It also makes the building usable for events in the off-season.

They seem to be able to handle similar weather conditions at Target Field in Minneapolis easily enough.

 

[Bogtrotter]

Wrigley field also.

 

[JMSRead]

Yeah there are a few open air stadiums that I think have pretty much the same weather as us. Minnesota, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago off the top of my head. They do seem to make it work *but* those teams often have a ton of cancelled or postponed games early in the year. If you could build something that feels open air and ballparky with the ability to shut a roof I think that would be ideal. I'm not sure if anyone has really achieved that in MLB though - maybe Seattle or Houston?

That is really interesting to see Rogers Centre and Fenway side by side like that. I've been to both parks, but didn't really grasp how much smaller Fenway is. I imagine with modern amenities and concourses you wouldn't want something *that* much smaller, but maybe a middle ground.

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

Yeah there are a few open air stadiums that I think have pretty much the same weather as us. Minnesota, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago off the top of my head. They do seem to make it work *but* those teams often have a ton of cancelled or postponed games early in the year. If you could build something that feels open air and ballparky with the ability to shut a roof I think that would be ideal. I'm not sure if anyone has really achieved that in MLB though - maybe Seattle or Houston?

That is really interesting to see Rogers Centre and Fenway side by side like that. I've been to both parks, but didn't really grasp how much smaller Fenway is. I imagine with modern amenities and concourses you wouldn't want something *that* much smaller, but maybe a middle ground.

The Twins have had a total of 9 games in 10 years delayed due to the snow or cold - and 4 of those came in a 10 day period in 2018. It can be worked around.

 

[Bogtrotter]

I was surprised by how small Fenway is too. They might even be able to get a lot of the stands completed before they even touch the dome- assuming of course they go for a park that compact. Real grass and a fantastic skyline view to boot.

 

[JMSRead]

For those wishing to see a new stadium built in the Port Lands, for the views that such a location would offer with respect to the skyline, such an option is not viable. Why? MLB stadiums tend to have their fields oriented either in a northerly or northeasterly direction, in order to diminish glare from the sun. Were a stadium to be built here, with the objective of having the City skyline as the backdrop, it would have to be built in a westerly or north westerly direction, which isn't feasible, as that would face into the afternoon and evening sun, making it too difficult for the batters to see, not to mention adversely affecting the comfort of the fans. With that known, the Port Lands should be off the table, as an option. If a stadium was to go in here, it wouldn't have the dramatic views that some are envisioning, rather, the field would face somewhere out over the City, east of the Don River. This would be unremarkable as a backdrop, with virtually nothing of interest being visible, thereby greatly diminishing the atmosphere. Even if a prospective stadium in the Port Lands could face toward downtown, the views of the skyline from east of the Financial District, aren't the most flattering vantage points of the City. From downtown, the most dramatic and aesthetically pleasing direction from which to view the skyline is looking northeast from the Islands/lake; which brings to me to my next point.

Very good point on stadium orientation. I found a graphic online showing the orientation of each park (Rule 1.04 being the 'ideal' angle). As it is, it looks like Toronto is already one of the Westerly most facing parks. I'm not sure you could push that farther (though maybe there are ways). However, it looks like there's a fair bit of leeway in terms of aiming South or Southeast. So you could build on the Portlands and face the lake, which isn't all bad.

 

[T.E.C.II]

I think they should investigate if they can rebuild the RC. First, take the existing roof off. Rebuild the stands inside most or all of the exterior, and put a new roof on. You could re-orient the diamond, modify the foul areas, build new boxes and concourses, etc. The rebuild could possibly be done over several seasons. The building is basically super-strong, so as to support the roof, so I think it's doable. The location probably cannot be beat, either.

Isn't that what they have been considering, though? Also, one issue you left out is maybe the biggest one, and that's the field. They want to put in grass, but it's very difficult to do so in the Rogers Centre as it is now. I get wanting to maintain this location, but if you add the field to your list of suggestions, that's a lot of stuff to be changed. You're almost better off just building a new stadium.

 

[NikkiY]

Would the hotel be a hurdle in rebuilding the stadium? It isn't owned by Rogers, if I remember correctly. If the mention of "condos, offices, retail and public spaces" in the articles were in reference to 'Union Park', then there wouldn't be a replacement for the hotel either.

 

[Richard White]

Would the hotel be a hurdle in rebuilding the stadium? It isn't owned by Rogers, if I remember correctly. If the mention of "condos, offices, retail and public spaces" in the articles were in reference to 'Union Park', then there wouldn't be a replacement for the hotel either.

Likely. You can't tear down the stadium and not affect the hotel.

The hotel has rooms that look out into the field. Fun fact the room bookings come with a waiver after someone was caught having an affair on the Jumbotron.

The guys excuse was that he thought the windows weren't see through.

 

[T.E.C.II]

Just wanted to compare the current roofed stadiums.

Miller Park

T Mobile (formerly Safeco)

Chase Field

Globe Life Park

Minute Maid Park

Of these stadiums, I like Minute Maid the most. When the roof is open, it offers up a big view of the city. When closed, a large amount of light can still be let in.

T-Mobile comes in second, if only because it's become the Jays home away from in recent years. Still, when the the roof is closed, these stadiums tend to feel like huge warehouses.

 

[Bogtrotter]

I was always in the retractable roof camp but but now I'm not so sure. They are a huge added expense and how many baseball games a year is a roof really necessary? Rogers spent 10M in 2017 alone for the roof patch-up.

 

[syn]

Just wanted to compare the current roofed stadiums.

Miller Park

T Mobile (formerly Safeco)

Chase Field

Globe Life Park

Minute Maid Park

Of these stadiums, I like Minute Maid the most. When the roof is open, it offers up a big view of the city. When closed, a large amount of light can still be let in.

T-Mobile comes in second, if only because it's become the Jays home away from in recent years. Still, when the the roof is closed, these stadiums tend to feel like huge warehouses.

Agreed. That's where I think there could be legitimate disappointment if we get a new stadium.

The atmosphere at the Rogers Centre isn't really that bad with the roof open on a sunny day.

I'd also say a roof is a must for other purposes. The Rogers Centre still hosts a fair number of concerts each year.

 

[SubHuman]

No rain-outs and other weather issues has dramatically improved the "quality of life" for ticket-holders (and families) over the years... they can plan to see a game and see a game. I don't need a skyline view, as I'm focused on the playing field...

The Twins have had a total of 9 games in 10 years delayed due to the snow or cold - and 4 of those came in a 10 day period in 2018. It can be worked around.

Does that involve just games that had to be postponed entirely to a different date, or also the ones that were played on the scheduled date but maybe started a couple of hours late?
It makes me think of being a kid sometime during the Blue Jays' first or second season (1977 or 1978), excited about going to see my first big time pro sports event. My father had somehow gotten seats in one of the sections close to being behind home plate, perhaps because the opposition was the other expansion team, Seattle, that few were interested in seeing. Just before the game was about to start, it started raining, and it kept raining. After waiting for more than two hours, my father lost his patience and we went home, only to hear the game's first pitch on the car radio right as the car pulled into the driveway of our house. We got to exchange the tickets for another game, but the seats were no where near as good, even though they were also the most expensive (a whole 6.50 each) ones.