WislaHD
Superstar
Curiously, I used to live in a house exactly like this, except on the edge of a cliffside and in Venezuela. The views were wonderful, but I doubt there were any zoning laws dictating how my uncle built the house.
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Toronto Ridiculous NIMBYism thread
- Thread starter AlvinofDiaspar
- Start date
EagleEye
Senior Member
On a local Scarborough Facebook page I mentioned the sidewalk thing and how happy I was about it because in many of the older neighbourhoods in Scarborough there are no sidewalks at all. Well the reaction was something else. Mostly they expect all trees to be cut down for sidewalks and because they don't want to shovel snow. Of course all these houses have driveways so they own shovels.
the lemur
Senior Member
There was some other discussion recently where a local resident said the lack of sidewalks was no big deal for the elderly in winter because the neighbourhood gets together and shovels, oh and also nobody walks anyway. Then he said the problem with sidewalks - he has observed elsewhere - is that they tend not to get shovelled so, uh, we can't do that here.
rbt
Senior Member
About 15 years ago when my employer at the time sold his company (roughly $750M), one of the first things he did was have a very large garage installed under his house for his car collection.
I would be surprised if Toronto did not have a number of these kinds of homes already.
the lemur
Senior Member
James
Senior Member
So far I've only seen 1 or 2 houses in Toronto with an underground parking garage for around 4 cars. Nothing nearly as large as the iceberg homes in London, England of course.
rbt
Senior Member
4 seems pretty tiny. The one I was referring to was about 3x that plus a large shop area.
I'm assuming it's not the largest in the GTA since real-estate (of any kind) isn't my line of work; it's kinda random that I even know about it.
Last edited:
W. K. Lis
Superstar
When we built our house 26 years ago, we requested that the space under the garage be excavated for use as storage. Normally, the garage would just sitting on top of ground.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Wonder if in 1908, there were people who objected to road improvements, such as paving. After all paving a road could lead to undesirables driving onto their paved streets in their newfangled automobiles.
The legend for the map:
`
Click on the map for the full image. It shows that most of the residential streets were unpaved in 1908.
BTW. This map also shows the Belt Line Railway's Humber loop.
The legend for the map:
`
Click on the map for the full image. It shows that most of the residential streets were unpaved in 1908.
BTW. This map also shows the Belt Line Railway's Humber loop.
Attachments
Palma
Senior Member
if freehold I would be surprised it would be a problem. Stacked town houses I could see. Which type was proposed here?
Riverdale Rink Rat
Senior Member
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James
Senior Member
As if on cue, Toronto Life just produced an article on "Toronto's nastiest NIMBY fights."
Toronto’s nastiest NIMBY fights
Urban bellyachers are challenging the long-held notion of Toronto the Tolerant. Here’s a look at some of the city’s most controversial developments, and why their detractors are so mad
http://torontolife.com/city/toronto-politics/toronto-nimby-nation/
Toronto’s nastiest NIMBY fights
Urban bellyachers are challenging the long-held notion of Toronto the Tolerant. Here’s a look at some of the city’s most controversial developments, and why their detractors are so mad
http://torontolife.com/city/toronto-politics/toronto-nimby-nation/
christiesplits
Senior Member
https://nowtoronto.com/music/city-downsizes-afrofest-due-to-noise-complaints-toronto/
It will be interesting to see how residents react to the two-day electronic and rock fest Bestival in July.
It will be interesting to see how residents react to the two-day electronic and rock fest Bestival in July.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Not In My Front Yard: The controversy of installing sidewalks
See link in Spacing Toronto.
McNicoll Avenue at Boxdene Avenue. There’s no sidewalk on the south side of this busy Scarborough road.`
See link in Spacing Toronto.
McNicoll Avenue at Boxdene Avenue. There’s no sidewalk on the south side of this busy Scarborough road.`
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Interesting read, from this link:
What I Learned When an Angry Group Destroyed My Public Meeting
When things go wrong in public engagement, they can go spectacularly wrong. The result isn't just frustration for project leaders. It can spell costly delays, failed or overturned planning efforts, or the loss of public support for politicians and government agencies. Introducing the Fiasco Files—a lighthearted opportunity to look back on those times when things went sideways. We'll have some fun with it and also draw out some valuable lessons that will help us all avoid them in the future. Names will be withheld to avoid any embarrassment to any people or organizations involved and keep the focus on the lessons learned. These stories could happen to anyone.
Fiasco Files Case #1: A Vocal Minority Dismantles a Community Meeting
Being vulnerable and talking about personal disasters can be intimidating, so I'll go first. This is the story about one of the last public meetings I ever facilitated. I was on the public engagement team charged with conducting a series of community workshops throughout a metropolitan region to discuss a long range regional vision for land use and transportation. The first few workshops were held in urban areas and went smoothly. We weren't aware what was brewing as we prepared for our third workshop—this one in the suburbs.
We learned later that the evening before the workshop a local group of people strongly opposed to the direction of the planning process met privately. They studied a manual on how to disrupt a public meeting and developed a strategy. With the project team blissfully unaware, this group of 40 or so arrived the next morning and positioned two of their members at each of the 20 tables set up around the room. A mere 30-seconds into my introduction it started.
One by one, members of this group started interjecting, some by raising their hands, others by shouting out. When one would say their piece, a cascade of approval spread around the room as other members of the group chimed in. I still recall the looks on the faces of the non-group members which made up the majority of the audience (though it was hard to tell since they were silent). It was a look of "Gee, I'm the odd duck here." In speaking with participants afterwards I heard statements like, "I disagreed but everyone seemed so fired up that I just kept my head down." These sentiments spoke to the effectiveness of the intimidation and influence that a vocal minority can wield at a public workshop.
Despite the finger-pointing, personal attacks, and criticisms leveled against me as a representative of the agencies involved, I listened to their input and tried in vain to move forward on our agenda. I was under strict direction from the lead agency that participants should be allowed to have their say for as long as they wish. When we were 45-minutes into the session and still barely past the first stage of our workshop plan, I took a moment to confer with the team. "Let them talk" was the directive. Needless to say we were unable to follow our workshop plan and we did not collect any structured input that could be compared with input gathered at other workshops. We left feeling frustrated, humiliated, and sympathetic for the majority of the participants who were robbed of their opportunity to express their views by the vocal minority.
Anyone who has a few community workshops under their belt has experienced a disruptive vocal minority though they are not always as well-organized as in this case. With the benefit of hindsight there are several things that we could have done to help the situation. Here are some steps that helped at subsequent workshops:
In this particular case one of the things that helped was the concurrent option for people to participate online. In fact this experience caused us to double down on online community engagement. The disruptors not only showed up at community workshops, they also tried to stack the deck online. In this case, we relied on the fraud detection capabilities of our online engagement software, MetroQuest (disclosure: I am the Chief Engagement Officer for MetroQuest). That combined with the sheer number of online participants (over 11,000 participants online) meant that the sentiments of the general population carried the day. The absence of an open forum online meant that grandstanding opportunities did not exist. Thankfully the intimidation and alienation that occurred in the workshop was not part of the online experience.
It is important to learn about the views of all stakeholders though there are far more productive ways to gain those insights than a chaotic public meeting. We did learn about the nature of the concerns from our very passionate minority group. That knowledge helped to shape not only the plan but also how those divergent views could be mitigated during the implementation process to avoid a political mess down the road.
We also came away a little wiser about how to structure a public workshop to avoid this kind of disaster and gained a greater appreciation of the relative safety of online engagement. While there are certainly opportunities for chaos online, well-designed software can help to mitigate these potholes to a great extent.
When things go wrong in public engagement, they can go spectacularly wrong. The result isn't just frustration for project leaders. It can spell costly delays, failed or overturned planning efforts, or the loss of public support for politicians and government agencies. Introducing the Fiasco Files—a lighthearted opportunity to look back on those times when things went sideways. We'll have some fun with it and also draw out some valuable lessons that will help us all avoid them in the future. Names will be withheld to avoid any embarrassment to any people or organizations involved and keep the focus on the lessons learned. These stories could happen to anyone.
Fiasco Files Case #1: A Vocal Minority Dismantles a Community Meeting
Being vulnerable and talking about personal disasters can be intimidating, so I'll go first. This is the story about one of the last public meetings I ever facilitated. I was on the public engagement team charged with conducting a series of community workshops throughout a metropolitan region to discuss a long range regional vision for land use and transportation. The first few workshops were held in urban areas and went smoothly. We weren't aware what was brewing as we prepared for our third workshop—this one in the suburbs.
We learned later that the evening before the workshop a local group of people strongly opposed to the direction of the planning process met privately. They studied a manual on how to disrupt a public meeting and developed a strategy. With the project team blissfully unaware, this group of 40 or so arrived the next morning and positioned two of their members at each of the 20 tables set up around the room. A mere 30-seconds into my introduction it started.
One by one, members of this group started interjecting, some by raising their hands, others by shouting out. When one would say their piece, a cascade of approval spread around the room as other members of the group chimed in. I still recall the looks on the faces of the non-group members which made up the majority of the audience (though it was hard to tell since they were silent). It was a look of "Gee, I'm the odd duck here." In speaking with participants afterwards I heard statements like, "I disagreed but everyone seemed so fired up that I just kept my head down." These sentiments spoke to the effectiveness of the intimidation and influence that a vocal minority can wield at a public workshop.
Despite the finger-pointing, personal attacks, and criticisms leveled against me as a representative of the agencies involved, I listened to their input and tried in vain to move forward on our agenda. I was under strict direction from the lead agency that participants should be allowed to have their say for as long as they wish. When we were 45-minutes into the session and still barely past the first stage of our workshop plan, I took a moment to confer with the team. "Let them talk" was the directive. Needless to say we were unable to follow our workshop plan and we did not collect any structured input that could be compared with input gathered at other workshops. We left feeling frustrated, humiliated, and sympathetic for the majority of the participants who were robbed of their opportunity to express their views by the vocal minority.
Anyone who has a few community workshops under their belt has experienced a disruptive vocal minority though they are not always as well-organized as in this case. With the benefit of hindsight there are several things that we could have done to help the situation. Here are some steps that helped at subsequent workshops:
- We got into the habit of making the rules of conduct at the workshop clear and got the audience to agree to them at the beginning of the session.
- If people disrespected the agreed-upon rules of conduct steps were taken to restore order—gentle at first and if those didn't work, increasingly direct. On one occasion a little humor alleviated an outburst.
- On other occasions we used the wireless voting keypads to ask the audience whether they wished to continue entertaining interruptions or move on with the agenda. Because of the anonymity of the handset voting, the vocal minority was outnumbered by a wide margin.
- In some situations we reduced the opportunities for disruptive plenary outbursts by organizing table discussions.
In this particular case one of the things that helped was the concurrent option for people to participate online. In fact this experience caused us to double down on online community engagement. The disruptors not only showed up at community workshops, they also tried to stack the deck online. In this case, we relied on the fraud detection capabilities of our online engagement software, MetroQuest (disclosure: I am the Chief Engagement Officer for MetroQuest). That combined with the sheer number of online participants (over 11,000 participants online) meant that the sentiments of the general population carried the day. The absence of an open forum online meant that grandstanding opportunities did not exist. Thankfully the intimidation and alienation that occurred in the workshop was not part of the online experience.
It is important to learn about the views of all stakeholders though there are far more productive ways to gain those insights than a chaotic public meeting. We did learn about the nature of the concerns from our very passionate minority group. That knowledge helped to shape not only the plan but also how those divergent views could be mitigated during the implementation process to avoid a political mess down the road.
We also came away a little wiser about how to structure a public workshop to avoid this kind of disaster and gained a greater appreciation of the relative safety of online engagement. While there are certainly opportunities for chaos online, well-designed software can help to mitigate these potholes to a great extent.