Toronto Residences at The Ritz-Carlton, Toronto | 207.86m | 53s | Graywood | Kohn Pedersen Fox

[urbandreamer]

Taal, Ego--thanks for the support. I don't block ppl here--now that is snobby behaviour....

Did I ever say I like/dislike that shantytown west of Bathurst? Nyet. In fact I prefer it to the area the RC is located.

What is my ideal location for RC Toronto? Well, I'd pull down one of those Bloor West office towers on the north side between Yonge and Avenue Rd (ideally the one on the NE corner of Bay and Bloor, where the Gap is located), and put my RC there. I get the feeling the only reason RC is located where it is, is the developer wanted to link a bank hq (RBC Dexia attracts very wealthy clients) to a hotel. Well imho, a RC Toronto needs more than just banking clients to stay alive. (Yes I've thought about the Hollywood set during FF week. Big deal.) Bloor West also has shopping more in tune to the RC client--older, affluent "mainstream" types. For the wealthy older hipster, there's boutique hotels like Thompson, Germain etc. Twenty years from now, yes, I agree the chosen RC site will be very upscale, dense and happening. But twenty years from now, the RC could be looking rather dated and tired....

I would've gone with a classic stone and red brick RC on Bloor West. The nearby Annex millionaires would suit the quiet lifestyle of the RC client better. I believe one of the big 4 (RC, Trump, S-La, 4S) will fail within 5 years--Toronto isn't large enough to go from zero to four 5 star hotels.

Back to my original post: How many of you drive along Wellington west of Bathurst east into the core? Driving, biking or walking that strip daily like I do, is strange--you go from rundown (but I love it anyway) lowrise Victorians to charming warehouses to ....crap like Icon1&2 etc then you see RC and across the street the ass end of RTH--not exactly "glamourous." It's like driving into Toronto from Hamilton--from the poorhouse to the wealthy. Nothing negative in what I was saying, just how I see the city.

Cheers.

 

[egotrippin]

My favourite part of Wellington is the built form itself between Spadina and Yonge. Most of the stuff between Simcoe and Spadina aren't standouts, but I like the canyon effect through there. It does feel amazingly dead considering it's surrounded by far more bustling streets in every direction, but you're right, it'll definitely come alive eventually; I'm hoping before 20 years though. Architecturally, I posted my mock-up earlier in the thread, the south facade really needs better uniformity. Overall the Ritz is a little too jumbled, and looks very '80s from some angles. Though there are a lot of angles in which it impresses, such as its slope peeking out from RBC down around the Union area.

I don't remember Wellington being too rundown out past Spadina, though I haven't done that walk since last summer. The existing Victorian architecture is what saves it though, just needs better integration with the rest of the area. The street-scape plan (I've seen it posted somewhere here) looks really promising.

Also, no problem UD. Don't stop with your unique perspectives of the city. Go easy on the east end though, it's trying.

 

[4grand]

Well said UD.

 

[gristle]

How many of you drive along Wellington west of Bathurst east into the core? Driving, biking or walking that strip daily like I do, is strange--you go from rundown (but I love it anyway) lowrise Victorians to charming warehouses to ....crap like Icon1&2 etc then you see RC and across the street the ass end of RTH--not exactly "glamourous." It's like driving into Toronto from Hamilton--from the poorhouse to the wealthy. Nothing negative in what I was saying, just how I see the city.

I live in this area and have for years. Regardless of how run down you think the area is, it ain't no shanty town.

So pardon me for mistaking your ignorance of what a shanty town is. That you are clueless regarding the fact that shanty towns are typically populated by landless and impoverished persons - who are very often squatters - should not be held against you. Also, I don't want to emphasize the fact that you don't know shanty town dwellings are usually built out of scrap materials like corrugated metal, plastic sheet and discarded wood. Technically speaking, these dwellings are not "houses." Unfortunately, you are unable to distinguish this part of Toronto from a real shanty town.

 

[condovo]

I believe one of the big 4 (RC, Trump, S-La, 4S) will fail within 5 years--Toronto isn't large enough to go from zero to four 5 star hotels.

No way. There's a huge amount of money in T.O., both local and international, and the city's size and global presence are increasing year by year. If anything, we can probably absorb a couple more high-profile, five-star hotel/condos.

 

[taal]

No way. There's a huge amount of money in T.O., both local and international, and the city's size and global presence are increasing year by year. If anything, we can probably absorb a couple more high-profile, five-star hotel/condos.

While I agree in general ... UD has a point, to go from 0 to 5 over a 5 year time span is a little excessive.
Also we know US tourists aren't going to be coming in droves as they may have in the past (to Canada in general) so this requires a lot of pickup in foreign tourism here.

Don't forget, a lot of these hotels aren't as big as they look as large components of all of these 5 star projects are condos ... so it's possible some rooms would be converted.

 

[Ramako]

While I agree in general ... UD has a point, to go from 0 to 5 over a 5 year time span is a little excessive.
Also we know US tourists aren't going to be coming in droves as they may have in the past (to Canada in general) so this requires a lot of pickup in foreign tourism here.

Don't forget, a lot of these hotels aren't as big as they look as large components of all of these 5 star projects are condos ... so it's possible some rooms would be converted.

You've also got to consider that Toronto is dramatically under-served by luxury hotels. That means that there's a market for conventions and tourism that this city does not have access to, which these hotels will open up by virtue of their presence alone. Additionally, by the time Trump, 4S, and Shangri-La are open for business, don't expect the loonie to still be at parity.

Anyway, considering Toronto's relative size and importance as a financial centre it's not really that much of a stretch to say that we could handle 4 five-star hotels. Let's not forget that UD doesn't think that there's much for tourists to see or do in Toronto, so his perception of the hotel market is a tad skewed.

 

[condovo]

I agree with Ramako that 0-to-5 in 5 years makes sense in a market as woefully under-served by the luxury (hotel) sector as Toronto. The dwindling droves of US tourists will impact the Marriotts and Hilton Garden Inns, not the Four Seasonses and Shangri-Las.

 

[marcus_a_j]

Anyone know how well the Hazelton Hotel does? Wasn't that the first 5-star hotel in Toronto when it opened not too long ago (2008 I think?)

 

[to-enthusiast]

You've also got to consider that Toronto is dramatically under-served by luxury hotels. That means that there's a market for conventions and tourism that this city does not have access to, which these hotels will open up by virtue of their presence alone. Additionally, by the time Trump, 4S, and Shangri-La are open for business, don't expect the loonie to still be at parity.

Anyway, considering Toronto's relative size and importance as a financial centre it's not really that much of a stretch to say that we could handle 4 five-star hotels. Let's not forget that UD doesn't think that there's much for tourists to see or do in Toronto, so his perception of the hotel market is a tad skewed.

You're right about the loonie not being at parity for that long - it may well be above, and there to stay for a while.

And gristle, while I understand that urbandreamer may come off a little strong, he provides an interesting counterpoint to this forum at times. I can often identify at least a glimmer of truth in his abject admissions about our state of civic affairs. And perhaps look up "hyperbole".

 

[gabe]

Anyone know how well the Hazelton Hotel does? Wasn't that the first 5-star hotel in Toronto when it opened not too long ago (2008 I think?)

It does well. Small 5 star boutique hotels do well in any big city, they tend to have better service and are quieter. The Ritz and the other new 5 star hotels will have to keep their prices down which will attract visitors, You wont be seeing $1000 a night room rates like NYC anytime soon. Compared to NYC, Toronto's luxury hotels are cheap

 

[toskier]

It does well. Small 5 star boutique hotels do well in any big city, they tend to have better service and are quieter. The Ritz and the other new 5 star hotels will have to keep their prices down which will attract visitors, You wont be seeing $1000 a night room rates like NYC anytime soon. Compared to NYC, Toronto's luxury hotels are cheap

Ritz and Trump will be more expensive because of the Buisness crowd.

 

[interested]

I have heard a figure of $500-$600 bantered around by people in the hospitality industry as the going rate for 5 star hotels in Toronto. But then, I gather 4 stars are supposed to be $250-$300 and have been running more recently below that $180-$220 is what i have been told. I can't confirm the exact accuracy of these figures but they are I believe in the right ball park at present. Therefore, one might assume that the 5 star hotels may be discounted as well. Again, it will be a function of the economy, the business/luxury traveller, and whether Toronto is indeed a destination of choice. The point about the conventions is absolutely correct. By having 5 star hotels, this will draw conventions to the city which in turn will result in the occupancy of the 5 star hotels.

 

[gristle]

While I agree in general ... UD has a point, to go from 0 to 5 over a 5 year time span is a little excessive.
Also we know US tourists aren't going to be coming in droves as they may have in the past (to Canada in general) so this requires a lot of pickup in foreign tourism here.

Vancouver has more five star hotels than Toronto. But to your point about a slow-down in tourism, that would be an issue of concern to these businesses.

 

[wyliepoon]

April 15 (Thursday)