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Toronto Raptors

  • Thread starter billy corgan19982
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What are you talking about? Derozan was good - he never came close to being great. This trade is an absolute no-brainer. Kawhi is top 5 when healthy. Derozan was never top 25 in this league and would have never even been selected if the Raptors were in the west. This is like One Bloor East vs Grid Condos.
 
Avenue said:
What are you talking about? Derozan was good - he never came close to being great. This trade is an absolute no-brainer. Kawhi is top 5 when healthy. Derozan was never top 25 in this league and would have never even been selected if the Raptors were in the west. This is like One Bloor East vs Grid Condos.
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What am I talking about?
We just traded an all-star player who wants to be here for a much better rental player who will be a free agent in a year then sign with one of the two L.A teams, which he has stated his intention to do many times before. And losing the rising young Poeltl for the 31-year old Danny Green is a better indication of what this is. A flash in the pan run to win an ECF but not an actual championship with a near guarantee that the whole thing will have to be torn down a year later. You are the first person I've heard say this is a no-brainer that benefits the Raptors, as most analyzing the situation look beyond 1 year
 
someMidTowner said:
What am I talking about?
We just traded an all-star player who wants to be here for a much better rental player who will be a free agent in a year then sign with one of the two L.A teams, which he has stated his intention to do many times before. And losing the rising young Poeltl for the 31-year old Danny Green is a better indication of what this is. A flash in the pan run to win an ECF but not an actual championship with a near guarantee that the whole thing will have to be torn down a year later. You are the first person I've heard say this is a no-brainer that benefits the Raptors, as most analyzing the situation look beyond 1 year
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He's right though. It may not seem so, but this move does look beyond next year.

The current group has had about 5 years now to make some noise in the playoffs, and they always fall short. In the past two years, they did so spectacularly. This year was the perfect opportunity to make the Finals with this core - they had great depth, home court advantage vs everyone except Houston and they were relatively well rested. The result was the same as the year before - an embarrassing sweep, this time against a relatively weak Cleveland team.

Ujiri came to the conclusion that this group had maxed their potential, and I can't disagree with him. They were given practically everything to succeed this year and still choked.

I like DeRozan and what he's done in Toronto, but the bottom line is he's a 2nd tier star. He's nowhere near a Leonard type talent. This year when the Raptors needed him in the playoffs he faltered, badly. They didn't even need him to be great - just 'okay' would've likely been enough.

If the trade hadn't been made, the Lowry/DeRozan/Ibaka core had two years left. They're almost guaranteed to move on from both Ibaka and Lowry once their deals are up. DeRozan has an opt-out clause after two years, which he's likely to use.

DeRozan doesn't seem like the kind of player you'd want to commit a max contract to in his 30s. He's still mediocre defensively, and his offensive game isn't very versatile. I can't imagine him being a great player in his 30s, certainly not good enough to warrant the kind of contract he'll get.

That's why this move makes sense for the future - instead of two years of contention with this core, you get one, but with a much, much better chance than you've ever had. If you convince him to stay, great. If not, you have a lot of cap space over the next two years (very important in the NBA) and a chance to rebuild with all of your important draft picks and best young players (Anunoby, Siakam, VanVleet).

It may not seems like it, but all things considered this was a terrific move.
 
syn said:
He's right though. It may not seem so, but this move does look beyond next year.

The current group has had about 5 years now to make some noise in the playoffs, and they always fall short. In the past two years, they did so spectacularly. This year was the perfect opportunity to make the Finals with this core - they had great depth, home court advantage vs everyone except Houston and they were relatively well rested. The result was the same as the year before - an embarrassing sweep, this time against a relatively weak Cleveland team.

Ujiri came to the conclusion that this group had maxed their potential, and I can't disagree with him. They were given practically everything to succeed this year and still choked.

I like DeRozan and what he's done in Toronto, but the bottom line is he's a 2nd tier star. He's nowhere near a Leonard type talent. This year when the Raptors needed him in the playoffs he faltered, badly. They didn't even need him to be great - just 'okay' would've likely been enough.

If the trade hadn't been made, the Lowry/DeRozan/Ibaka core had two years left. They're almost guaranteed to move on from both Ibaka and Lowry once their deals are up. DeRozan has an opt-out clause after two years, which he's likely to use.

DeRozan doesn't seem like the kind of player you'd want to commit a max contract to in his 30s. He's still mediocre defensively, and his offensive game isn't very versatile. I can't imagine him being a great player in his 30s, certainly not good enough to warrant the kind of contract he'll get.

That's why this move makes sense for the future - instead of two years of contention with this core, you get one, but with a much, much better chance than you've ever had. If you convince him to stay, great. If not, you have a lot of cap space over the next two years (very important in the NBA) and a chance to rebuild with all of your important draft picks and best young players (Anunoby, Siakam, VanVleet).

It may not seems like it, but all things considered this was a terrific move.
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It frees cap space and offers the franchise a door to take a different direction after the upcoming season, that's for sure. I agree with most of your points. The main reason I think this is a bad long-term move is the image it gives our front office. I know business is business, but several analysts and even other players have commented that this backstabbing isn't going unnoticed, and may become a factor in future signings. If you remove loyalty and public perception from the equation, I'd be 100% okay with it. If we somehow convince Kahwi to love Toronto, then none of that really matters I guess. I hope that jacket the superfan is buying him is nice and warm.
 
When Kyle Lowry first learned about him being traded to the Raptors, he strongly detested the city.

Now, Lowry is essentially a Toronto apologist.

Kawhi Leonard could warm up to playing here.

Don't forget that Danny Green is also a great player.

The current roster has a much better chance of winning the NBA Championship than with DeMar DeRozan (and DeRozan is among my favourite Raptors).
 
someMidTowner said:
It frees cap space and offers the franchise a door to take a different direction after the upcoming season, that's for sure. I agree with most of your points. The main reason I think this is a bad long-term move is the image it gives our front office. I know business is business, but several analysts and even other players have commented that this backstabbing isn't going unnoticed, and may become a factor in future signings. If you remove loyalty and public perception from the equation, I'd be 100% okay with it. If we somehow convince Kahwi to love Toronto, then none of that really matters I guess. I hope that jacket the superfan is buying him is nice and warm.
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That's a fair point, but I can't agree with it in the grand scheme of things. The goal is to win and this move gives you a much better opportunity to do that.

It's great DeRozan wanted to stay and it's unfortunate that there was any miscommunication - but ultimately players will want to go to a winning organization, and one that does what's necessary to put the best product on court.

Sports is such a transient thing - I imagine it will all be forgotten in a few years.
 
Johnny Au said:
Marc Gasol is a great addition for the Raptors.
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Based on a single anemic performance? Might be a bit early to make that call.
 
They better milk whatever is left of him because in the world of the NBA, he's right at the expiration date for efficient basketball play.
 
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