Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

Skeezix said:
That's the big one. A shocking number of drivers (apparently also bus drivers, sadly) do not understand that when turning right on a red, they still need to come to a complete stop, and that the pedestrian(s) crossing the street with the signal still have the right-of-way.[/
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and when you do that, drivers honk from behind
 
Skeezix said:
As someone who usually walks to work in weather like this, and is as a result very conscious of the timing of cars stopping in relation to the red light as I step off the sidewalk, I see at least one car run a red every morning. They accelerate when it's an old yellow, but by the time they hit the intersection it's red.
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Sure - you see that - or right on red.

But with bikes, you see lights in the middle of the red cycle, and the bike just sails straight through, without even stopping.

I really can't recall seeing that with a car more than once or twice.
 
Skeezix said:
Yes, many cyclists flaunt the rules. So do many drivers (running reds and rolling stops being most common), and even pedestrians (look up from your phone!). Lots of people think they have a license to do whatever.
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That may be the case. But then we should stop wringing our hands and bringing traffic to a stop because of stupidity. There will always be stupidity. If all the pedestrian deaths were due to aggressive driving, then I would be more empathetic. Alone this evening, I made three right turns at red lights and in all three cases there was a pedestrian or crowd at the light. Not once did anyone check over their left shoulder before they marched off the sidewalk. I won't even mention the number of people wearing two ear buds.

In Mrs. Smith's kindergarten class, I learned "Stop, Look, and Listen; before you cross the street." It was a song I can still remember. Plus we had Officer Ed and Blinky the patrol car. Apparently, they don't build pedestrians the way they used to.
 
nfitz said:
Sure - you see that - or right on red.

But with bikes, you see lights in the middle of the red cycle, and the bike just sails straight through, without even stopping.

I really can't recall seeing that with a car more than once or twice.
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Last weekend I was crossing on a green when I noticed a cycles at high speed racing toward me on a red that I hit him as he past me in front of me and he never slow down.

Far too may cycles are using the MGT as a speed zone with no care for other cycles on it or anyone around it. Same goes for the streets bike lanes. This applis to other cities as well.
 
nfitz said:
Sure - you see that - or right on red.

But with bikes, you see lights in the middle of the red cycle, and the bike just sails straight through, without even stopping.

I really can't recall seeing that with a car more than once or twice.
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Yeah, I would say that running a red in the midst of the cycle is pretty rare.

The most common one that I see is left-turners who aren't in the intersection (and often 1 or 2 cars back from the stopping bar) running the red while the opposite direction already has the green. Honestly, I see this happen on a daily basis and couldn't even count it, as it is so frequent.
 
My point might have been lost. It was this:

No matter what arrangement of signals, street markings or signs we agonize over about installing on QQ, you will always have a base level of cyclists totally and completely ignoring them. It's the name of the game: "Have bicycle, can do Whatever I want."

I think we have come to a point where any further modifications to QQ will have dimishing returns: cyclists will not suddenly change their behaviour just because a light has a red bike on it instead of a regular red circle.

Perhaps what should be done is a major and significant crackdown by the police on cyclists disobeying the rules of the road. When have we ever seen that in this city? <crickets>
 
That's the point I've tried to make. A single cop at Queens Quay at Simcoe or York would write tickets continuously. They'd need multiple booklets. I was down there on a short Periscope late afternoon yesterday. If I were a cop, I would've written 10+ tickets in under 10 minutes. I understand that police are busy but this needs to be addressed because it's become very dangerous for every one involved. Get a few cops, send out a press release and sit there writing tickets for the media to see. It would pay for itself many times over.
 
TransitBart said:
That may be the case. But then we should stop wringing our hands and bringing traffic to a stop because of stupidity. There will always be stupidity. If all the pedestrian deaths were due to aggressive driving, then I would be more empathetic. Alone this evening, I made three right turns at red lights and in all three cases there was a pedestrian or crowd at the light. Not once did anyone check over their left shoulder before they marched off the sidewalk. I won't even mention the number of people wearing two ear buds.

In Mrs. Smith's kindergarten class, I learned "Stop, Look, and Listen; before you cross the street." It was a song I can still remember. Plus we had Officer Ed and Blinky the patrol car. Apparently, they don't build pedestrians the way they used to.
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So, pedestrians crossing at a light with the right-of-way who do not, in your view, sufficiently shoulder check, are at fault if they get hit?

Your post is emblematic of the problems we have in this city.
 
nfitz said:
Sure - you see that - or right on red.

But with bikes, you see lights in the middle of the red cycle, and the bike just sails straight through, without even stopping.

I really can't recall seeing that with a car more than once or twice.
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You're not paying enough attention if you don't see cars running reds.

I never said cyclists don't do it too. Much more, in fact - as I said in the other thread.
 
pstogios said:
Perhaps what should be done is a major and significant crackdown by the police on cyclists disobeying the rules of the road. When have we ever seen that in this city? <crickets>
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They do crack down on cyclists. If you haven't noticed, you aren't paying attention. I've seen cops parked at stop signs, ticketing cyclists who (perfectly safely, most of the time) treat the stop sign as a yield sign and roll through. There are regular "safety blitzes" targeting cyclists -- a quick Google will turn up various stories about them from the past few years.

We see cyclists hit and killed by cars every week in this city, and yet some seem to think we need more crackdowns on cyclists. Maybe the cops have bigger fish to fry. Maybe they've noticed that it's cars, not cyclists, killing and maiming other road users every day.

The argument for a crackdown on "scofflaw cyclists" is one of emotion, not harm reduction. It's fueled by anger at perceived unfairness ("how can they get away with breaking the rules!"), rather than a desire to make our roads and sidewalks safer. If people spent half the energy they spent getting worked up about cyclists, instead advocating for better infrastructure and road safety legislation, we'd all be ahead.
 
There was a bicycle blitz at Queen & Bay yesterday, for example. I often see police checking for full stops at Queen's Quay between Stadium Rd. & Bathurst (they should watch motorists there too). There are also, as smably mentions, regular blitzes regarding equipment. If you ride in the city, you'll see them.
 
PinkLucy said:
There was a bicycle blitz at Queen & Bay yesterday, for example. I often see police checking for full stops at Queen's Quay between Stadium Rd. & Bathurst (they should watch motorists there too). There are also, as smably mentions, regular blitzes regarding equipment. If you ride in the city, you'll see them.
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If you're on a bike, approaching a stop sign slowly and preparing to stop, it's hard not to notice the cops doing their bike blitzes. The ones who get caught are, most time, the ones asking for it (the ones who blow through stops, distracted cyclists, etc.)

Of course, I don't always completely stop at stop signs on a bike (and come on, how many drivers do so?), but I've never been ticketed at the blitzes because I'm slowing down, ready to stop if someone else has right of way or if a pedestrian is about to cross, and checking my surroundings. I always cede right of way, and I never go through red lights.
 
The blitzes are harassment, by a group of people who mostly live a car dependent lifestyle on the outer edges of the city. It's especially so when they fine numerous people over a hundred dollars for not having a bell on their bike. That doesn't mean that cyclists who are flagrantly disobeying rules that are there for everyone's safety shouldn't face consequences. But I guess that running blitzes is easier for the police than actually putting officers on the street every day. You'd think Queens Quay was a long distance away from a police station.
 
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