Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

Is this wooden barrier being extended the length of the project to keep pedestrians from stumbling in front of streetcars or only in certain places?

19000670295_ebb526ab60_b.jpg


(Drum 118's photo)
 
So I bicycled the whole QQ on my way out to the Humber for my bike ride Saturday. I had a few observations:
  • The overall impression and feel of the area is fantastic. It feels like Toronto finally has a real waterfront. Very vibrant and lots of potential.
  • I generally love the bike path, it now links Sherbourne to the waterfront trail in a way that feels safe.
  • I had lots of problems with pedestrians on the trail on the way back. A number of close calls with pedestrians not even looking as they stepped into the path Especially at intersections, people would just stand in the path.
  • They need to make it very clear that the bike path is bikes only in this section...no pedestrians, people pushing strollers, etc. Intersections are really poorly marked here.
  • We saw car after car turning onto the streetcar ROW at Spadina. This intersection is just so ambiguous. Having seen the intersection, I'm no longer really blaming drivers for ending up on the ROW there. This desperately needs additional signage, turning lane markings, etc.
  • Lights at intersections desperately need to be improved...as others have said, they're often not in a totally logical place, and they all look the same. The bicycle lights should be green and red bike images. The transit lights should look different. And they need red arrows instead of red disks with "no right on red" signs.
  • Lots of close calls between pedestrians and streetcars as well...it's only time before there will be a serious injury or death.
I don't want to sound too critical though. I love the redesign. It just urgently needs some serious tweaking. Rather disappointed to read about the new speed restrictions too.
 
hawc said:
Is this wooden barrier being extended the length of the project to keep pedestrians from stumbling in front of streetcars or only in certain places?
Click to expand...

That's a temporary guardrail along the Peter Slip Bridge in case a vehicle swerves to the side to prevent it from going into the lake. The picture immediately above the one you quoted actually shows (I assume?) the final guardrail to be installed, the wood is temporary.
 
hawc said:
Is this wooden barrier being extended the length of the project to keep pedestrians from stumbling in front of streetcars or only in certain places?
(Drum 118's photo)
Click to expand...
It was to get the show ready for Friday. Crews will be down there to finish it off along with a few other things soon.
 
Here's my ride along the new path, heading west from Bay Street. I rode the temporary Queens Quay East path too, but it's not very good.


scott said:
I agree the designers couldn't really make up their minds. But you'll notice that the bicycle symbols are only at the "entrances" of the bike path. When the pavement starts or ends you'll find a bike symbol to denote what the path is meant for. Which actually does make sense.
Click to expand...

It would make sense except that the bicycles are facing toward the brick area rather than toward the asphalt... Definitely not intuitive design.

But if you take York for instance, it's pretty far between the paved bike paths since the intersection is wide and there isn't any more bicycle symbols between each end (unless I missed them). There's just dashed lines denoting the MGT connection implying that you can cross it since it's not a solid line.
Click to expand...

Elephant's Feet markings are indeed dashed meaning that you can cross them, but they are generally used where you must yield to bicycles, such as at driveways and bicycle path crossings.
 
It's really great, tons of people out today enjoying the new street. More cyclists than I think I've ever seen before.

I do think it will be much better when the trees are bigger and provide more shade though, on hot days.
 
MetroMan said:
It was not a part of this phase. Work officially ended at Bay Street although a part of it was extended to about Yonge. Once the East Waterfront LRT is funded and as work progresses on the buildings lining Queens Quay, streets and sidewalks will be rebuilt as per the Queens Quay design.

There seems to be a large political appetite for the East Waterfront LRT and public reception to Queens Quay was extremely positive so it shouldn't be long before we see the next phase get the go ahead.
Click to expand...

I certainly hope you are right about the QQ East LRT. I was at a meeting on the Lower Yonge Precinct last week and asked about it. I was told that 'everyone likes it, nobody want to pay for it". In my opinion the development of the eastern waterfront will not proceed fast or properly until this is built. At present the Bay and Sherbourne busses can just about deal with moving people but with the Monde and Hines projects at Lower Sherbourne and the upcoming work on the Gouvernment site, the Innovation Centre and the huge Lower Yonge precinct plans the transport really MUST be improved. There is a public meeting on June 23 on the Lower Yonge Precinct plans, I assume someone will raise this and the (old) WT slogan "Transit First". The City has managed to get a space for a station under 45 Bay but the big costs are expanding Union loop and re-designing/rebuilding the tunnel portal @ QQ and Bay.
 
Napoleon said:
Lots of close calls between pedestrians and streetcars. It's only time before there will be a serious injury or death. I don't want to sound too critical though. I love the redesign. It just urgently needs some serious tweaking. Rather disappointed to read about the new speed restrictions too.
Click to expand...

So all good, other than the possibility of serious injury or death?

;)

What are the new speed restrictions?
 
Napoleon said:
  • They need to make it very clear that the bike path is bikes only in this section...no pedestrians, people pushing strollers, etc. Intersections are really poorly marked here.
  • We saw car after car turning onto the streetcar ROW at Spadina. This intersection is just so ambiguous. Having seen the intersection, I'm no longer really blaming drivers for ending up on the ROW there. This desperately needs additional signage, turning lane markings, etc.
  • Lights at intersections desperately need to be improved...as others have said, they're often not in a totally logical place, and they all look the same. The bicycle lights should be green and red bike images. The transit lights should look different. And they need red arrows instead of red disks with "no right on red" signs.
  • Lots of close calls between pedestrians and streetcars as well...it's only time before there will be a serious injury or death.
I don't want to sound too critical though. I love the redesign. It just urgently needs some serious tweaking. Rather disappointed to read about the new speed restrictions too.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your impressions.

We're all generally in agreement - the product is great but serious tweaks are needed.

Now you need to take the next step and contact your Councillor and Waterfront Toronto about your concerns.

We need to stop assuming those powers that be actually read UT and start contacting them directly.
 
Napoleon said:
So I bicycled the whole QQ on my way out to the Humber for my bike ride Saturday. I had a few observations:
  • The overall impression and feel of the area is fantastic. It feels like Toronto finally has a real waterfront. Very vibrant and lots of potential.
  • I generally love the bike path, it now links Sherbourne to the waterfront trail in a way that feels safe.
  • I had lots of problems with pedestrians on the trail on the way back. A number of close calls with pedestrians not even looking as they stepped into the path Especially at intersections, people would just stand in the path.
  • They need to make it very clear that the bike path is bikes only in this section...no pedestrians, people pushing strollers, etc. Intersections are really poorly marked here.
  • We saw car after car turning onto the streetcar ROW at Spadina. This intersection is just so ambiguous. Having seen the intersection, I'm no longer really blaming drivers for ending up on the ROW there. This desperately needs additional signage, turning lane markings, etc.
  • Lights at intersections desperately need to be improved...as others have said, they're often not in a totally logical place, and they all look the same. The bicycle lights should be green and red bike images. The transit lights should look different. And they need red arrows instead of red disks with "no right on red" signs.
  • Lots of close calls between pedestrians and streetcars as well...it's only time before there will be a serious injury or death.
I don't want to sound too critical though. I love the redesign. It just urgently needs some serious tweaking. Rather disappointed to read about the new speed restrictions too.
Click to expand...

This sums up my view as well. It's hard to say if it was worth $130M (considering I have an inherent bias in that I think all projects in Old Toronto are worth their pricetag). But yeah, as a pedestrian on Saturday, things looked great. No doubt the cycle path is an accident waiting to happen. I think there needs to be posted signs warning cyclists to use a slow speed. Wayward pedestrians or toddlers are going to make it on there, and will be hit. I'm an avid cyclist, and I like speed. But whenever there are kids around, slow speeds are must. Many cyclists don't think this way though. And it's not just this section of MGT, but much of this city's recreation paths. Some of the Lower Don trail is way too bloody narrow, but unfortunately for those on foot there are no sidewalks or designated footpaths.

I later drove through the area on Sat night and came pretty close to going onto the streetcar tracks from s/b Spadina myself. The car in front of me did, and I was sort of following its lead before I realized. It's a no-brainer to paint the road solid colours with large arrows. I predict a major accident within a month.
 
44 North said:
This sums up my view as well. It's hard to say if it was worth $130M (considering I have an inherent bias in that I think all projects in Old Toronto are worth their pricetag)
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that whatever new development and businesses this thing attracts will bring in well over $130 Million in tax revenue, so I wouldn't worry too much about if the project was worth the money :)
 
"If you build it, they will come" is pretty evident here. The number of cyclists that have been using the cycling path over the past few days has been incredible!
 
44 North said:
No doubt the cycle path is an accident waiting to happen. I think there needs to be posted signs warning cyclists to use a slow speed. Wayward pedestrians or toddlers are going to make it on there, and will be hit. I'm an avid cyclist, and I like speed. But whenever there are kids around, slow speeds are must. Many cyclists don't think this way though. And it's not just this section of MGT, but much of this city's recreation paths. Some of the Lower Don trail is way too bloody narrow, but unfortunately for those on foot there are no sidewalks or designated footpaths.
Click to expand...

Actually high speeds are perfectly fine on this path, because there is a sizeable (2-3m?) buffer between the bike path and the sidewalk. This gives plenty of advance notice of any wayward pedestrians.

Keep in mind that people rarely cycle with their eyes closed, they can respond to situations that arise.

Tuscani01 said:
"If you build it, they will come" is pretty evident here. The number of cyclists that have been using the cycling path over the past few days has been incredible!
Click to expand...

We can't make any observations of that type based on this weekend, since it's opening weekend. I'm sure many of the people cycling along the street were purely there to check out the new street, as I was.

That said, I have no doubt that this redesign will massively increase cycling ridership in the area, and I wouldn't be surprised if Queens Quay even surpasses College Street as the busiest bicycle street in the city.

hawc said:
Any cyclists still on the road? Or all on the bike path now?
Click to expand...

On Saturday, I saw one guy on the road, but he scooted over to the path shortly thereafter. Presumably he hadn't realized that the new path was open.

There were plenty of lycra-clad road racer types on the path, so I'd guess we captured pretty much the entire spectrum of the population.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top