Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

interchange42 said:
Nobody realized that because the terminal location is not known yet on the Ontario/Ex Place grounds. Could be anywhere there.

42
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Yeah, I'm still searching on that, the more I dig, the more nebulous it becomes. In all fairness, some stories do allude to how undefined the whole thing is, and Chris Hume stating what I did earlier, in a justified moment of cynicism:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1116058679806238722

This really sticks out:
[...]
Following the announcement, federal Finance Minister Bill Morneau questioned why provincial officials were alone at the announcement.

"Our obvious question is why the Ontario government is out talking about investments in Toronto without the mayor of Toronto," he told reporters on Parliament Hill, adding that Ford's government hasn't been at the table with Ottawa.
[...]
Ford did say, however, that his government has allocated future funding based on an assumption that Ottawa will cover up to 40 per cent of the costs of new builds. If they don't step up and pay, Ford vowed his government would "backstop it ourselves."
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/doug-ford-toronto-subway-upload-gta-transit-plan-1.5090394?__vfz=medium=sharebar

Ford will have a new alias dealing with the loan sharks: "Ben Dover". He's not being just coy...he's just itching to get called on this.
interchange42 said:
Could be anywhere there.
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Which raises another interesting possibility. Uploading the Ex...
 

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As far as the plan, it is an excellent one.

The little DRL the city was proposing was nothing but a Y&B by-pass but served relatively few other people as it was simply too short........aka Sheppard Stubway. This Ontario line offers a real alternative to many more people going to far more destinations and turns the line from a by-pass to a truly useful transit line with the line going to Eglinton on one end and thru the entire downtown core on the other. The terminus at Ontario Place makes sense as the entire area is rapidly developing and provides a transfer for GO/RER from the east and west offering an option to get to downtown areas lessening the inevitable over crowding at Union and offers a vital alternative thru the core in case of an incident/problem at Union Station itself.

The grade separated western Eglinton extension makes sense as the entire Crosstown should have been grade separated from the beginning. The 3 stop Scar extension is political but if going to be built a 3 stops is far more useful than a stupid one stop line and looping it to the Sheppard line is not a bad idea. The York extension is desperately needed and will be done AFTER the first section of the OL and seeing Toronto won't be paying for any of it, it's none of Toronto's business anyway.
 
Naming it the "Ontario Line" is actually a good bit of marketing. Helps everyone else in the province feel a sense of ownership, and it connects two attractions with "Ontario" in the name.

It's FOR THE PEOPLE FOLKS.

On another note, the lack of a Waterfront LRT and no Eglinton East LRT is bad news.
 
Sorry wasn't following as closely as I'd like to have. Now has Metrolinx said there's a report on this coming out soon. Surely a secret plan has a bit more meat on it. Right now this is just a basic map in dire need of detail + words. If not can someone Twitter them and give the answer?

The trains, kinda get the impression it's been selected already and almost certain it's Innovia - maybe related to Hillier's lobbying accusation. I'm interested in narrower trains, but there's really no need to pretend these things can't be made to order no different than all past subway purchases. Only diff would be this one's a bit narrower. A 'new solution' vehicle may not be the best solution, except for those selling it.

Crossing Leaside above grade, is that one of the wow factors? The preexisting plan using conventional subway 100% would've been done the same...the math was done here, no question it would've been a viaduct too.

And the thread name change. Was it really necessary? The City plan still very much exists and is clearly more of a plan than this map.
 
syn said:
On another note, the lack of a Waterfront LRT and no Eglinton East LRT is bad news.
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I still believe these 2 lines are the hostages in the subway upload and well see an agreement at some point. Both Tory and Ford will come out looking good
 
As far as the funding PPP idea, that also is a good one. There are 3 primary advantages......1}It lessens the amount governments have to put towards the project. 2} Makes the project eligible for the huge Canadian infrastructure bank which greatly is geared towards PPP. 3} The damn things come in on time and on budget.

The last one is crucial as exemplified on the Canada Line. The government sets all the parameters and once they do the private sector takes over. This guarantees 3 things.1} the line will get built. 2} It will be built on time. 3} It will come in on budget.
With the Canada Line there were VERY strict budget and time parameters with exceptional heavy {and on-going} penalties if the project was late and any extra cost overruns were the 100% the responsibility of the private partner......……..needless to say it came in on budget and opened 4 months AHEAD of schedule. It conversely guaranteed that the dam thing got built because the PPP also guaranteed the contract with very heavy {and on-going} penalties if the government back out which guaranteed that one government couldn't start it and the next one stop it.

This plan is a decidedly very good one and how ANYONE could bitch about it is beyond imagination and is doing so strictly fpr political points or a standard Ford bashing session.
 
The province dictating Toronto's transit system, especially a lien entirely within Toronto's boundaries, without any sort of input from the city, the mayor having no idea about the plan, is just a bad precedent. "Ontario Line" is a very fitting name, more than just symbolic.
 
So, what is the most likely technology that the Ontario Line will use? And when looking at successful case studies in Europe and warmer climates, will it be winter-proof?
 
ssiguy2 said:
As far as the funding PPP idea, that also is a good one. There are 3 primary advantages......1}It lessens the amount governments have to put towards the project. 2} Makes the project eligible for the huge Canadian infrastructure bank which greatly is geared towards PPP. 3} The damn things come in on time and on budget.

The last one is crucial as exemplified on the Canada Line. The government sets all the parameters and once they do the private sector takes over. This guarantees 3 things.1} the line will get built. 2} It will be built on time. 3} It will come in on budget.
With the Canada Line there were VERY strict budget and time parameters with exceptional heavy {and on-going} penalties if the project was late and any extra cost overruns were the 100% the responsibility of the private partner......……..needless to say it came in on budget and opened 4 months AHEAD of schedule. It conversely guaranteed that the dam thing got built because the PPP also guaranteed the contract with very heavy {and on-going} penalties if the government back out which guaranteed that one government couldn't start it and the next one stop it.

This plan is a decidedly very good one and how ANYONE could bitch about it is beyond imagination and is doing so strictly fpr political points or a standard Ford bashing session.
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I found it interesting that they pointed out even private sector run jobs can have trouble being done on time and on budget (I believe the example they used was a home renovation).

The problem with this plan is that it proposes a similar funding model to every other transit plan we've seen. For all the talk of 'uploading', what they're really doing is taking ownership. This gives them planning control, but the funding model is essentially the same.

And let's be honest - Ford has a very poor track history delivering anything transit-related on time and on budget.
 
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Election year = feds have to commit what Ford is asking for as a minimum to try to keep Toronto. In addition, they have to go OVER AND ABOVE that to give Toronto what it wants (read Waterfront and Eglinton East, or pay City's share of the other projects) to win Toronto votes.
 
Whatever one thinks of this plan........its obviously been in the works for some time...............

All the while, good money has been spent on detailed plans for the RL which will, it would seem, at the very least be altered.

If the government knew it was going to do this, say, six months ago...........why not order a freeze on the detailed design of the City's RL proposal?

Why allow good money to be thrown away?

Not acceptable.
 
syn said:
I found it interesting that they pointed out even private sector run jobs can have trouble being done on time and on budget (I believe the example they used was a home renovation).

The problem with this plan is that it proposes a similar funding model to every other transit plan we've seen. For all the talk of 'uploading', what they're really doing is taking ownership. This gives them planning control, but the funding model is essentially the same.

And let's be honest - Ford has a very poor track history delivering anything transit related on time and on budget.
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Ford has never had the power to deliver transit. Having only one (two) vote on council that refuses to work with your platform doesn't really allow for this to be a fair statement.

Well see this time as there is zero relevant opposition to a plan that will be well supported by voters
 
doady said:
The province dictating Toronto's transit system, especially a lien entirely within Toronto's boundaries, without any sort of input from the city, the mayor having no idea about the plan, is just a bad precedent. "Ontario Line" is a very fitting name, more than just symbolic.
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John Tory is being exposed for the bad leader that he is. He is an empty suit.
 
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