Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[Leo_Chan]

Will the TPAP Public Consultation Meetings include more detailed plans for the line than just lines and dots, but with station boxes and entrances? Also, will this line need any Emergency Exits in the south portion?

 

[aquateam]

I hope they rename Queen to City Hall and Carlaw to Queen East.

Eglinton West is getting renamed to Cedarvale, so there is Precedent for a interchange getting renamed. And also the station locations are preliminary - Osgoode at the very least is going to be + if there is roomed to do this.

Yeah, but the question is more: why would you go through the trouble of renaming a station (Queen) just so you can replace an unambiguous name (Carlaw is the only stop on Carlaw in the entire rapid transit network) with an ambiguous one. "Queen East" isn't an especially informative name, given that the DRL runs under Queen, Queen extends much further east than the DRL station, and that the neighbourhood is called Leslieville.

I'm actually pretty happy with the naming so far, although I'm sure the situation is like with the Eglinton LRT or TYSSE where the working names are good but then they get finalized as something silly.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Will the TPAP Public Consultation Meetings include more detailed plans for the line than just lines and dots, but with station boxes and entrances?

Look at the Eglinton Crosstown LRT EA to get an idea of what will be in the TPAP. But the short answer is, yes.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Yeah, but the question is more: why would you go through the trouble of renaming a station (Queen) just so you can replace an unambiguous name (Carlaw is the only stop on Carlaw) with an ambiguous one. "Queen East" isn't an especially informative name, given that the DRL runs under Queen, Queen extends much further east than the DRL station, and that the neighbourhood is called Leslieville.

I'm actually pretty happy with the naming so far, although I'm sure the situation is like with the Eglinton LRT or TYSSE where the working names are good but then they get finalized as something silly.

Unless Queen Station is following the footsteps of Eglinton Station, then I guess Queen will be the final name of the station, even though Queen-Yonge would make some sense. Now, if it actually does get renamed to Queen-Yonge, then my explanation will be because the Relief Line is a real subway, while the Eglinton Crosstown is just an underground LRT, not important enough to deserve a station name change.

Also something to note is that after I tweeted about the "mistake" on the Relief Line North site, the description of the page was change to refer to it as Eglinton Station, while the picture stayed as Eglinton-Yonge. However, it is now both changed to just Eglinton.

It's just quite "exciting" that the same page was change so many times just to fix a small mistake:

 

[micheal_can]

Begs the question of why we need 2 separate stations. Build 1 "city hall" station, make it connect to BOTH Osgoode and Queen.

This might seem like a good idea, until you start listening to the bleeding hearts who want a transfer, not a "long walk".

 

[rbt]

Begs the question of why we need 2 separate stations. Build 1 "city hall" station, make it connect to BOTH Osgoode and Queen.

Trying to take the longest platform record from the Red Line in Chicago?

I think you need about another 400m for that.

 

[aquateam]

This might seem like a good idea, until you start listening to the bleeding hearts who want a transfer, not a "long walk".

I think it's important that the DRL be designed from the outset as being part of a greater network, not as a standalone line whose sole job is to shuttle people from Pape to City Hall. The ultimate destinations of people who board at Carlaw and Queen might be at Dupont station. Or St. Clair. Or any one of the multitude of locations already connected by our existing subway network. When it is extended further west, you will have even more of these connections: maybe you're at Yonge and Eglinton and work at Liberty village, so you'd take Line 1 south and then transfer at Queen to go west on the DRL. These kind of connections should be facilitated, rather than dump the entire ridership of the DRL at a single station in the "psychological heart" of Toronto.

Besides, if you have a single "City Hall" station, that means 1100 meters between "Moss Park" station and the only centrally located terminus station. That guarantees that everyone will be boarding/alighting at a single station, creating a "Union" station crowding situation. Why are we building underground stations every 550 meters on suburban Eglinton, but then turn around have half as many stations per kilometer in the densest part of Toronto?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This might seem like a good idea, until you start listening to the bleeding hearts who want a transfer, not a "long walk".

This has nothing to do with bleeding hearts. Every minute extra that people have to spend transferring between lines will result in potentially thousands of fewer peak rider users on the DRL. Every minute extra people have to spend transferring makes this nearly $7 Billion investment that much less effective. This is not academic discussion. This has real implications on our network.

 

[CapitalSeven]

This has nothing to do with bleeding hearts. Every minute extra that people have to spend transferring between lines will result in potentially thousands of fewer peak rider users on the DRL. Every minute extra people have to spend transferring makes this nearly $7 Billion investment that much less effective. This is not academic discussion. This has real implications on our network.

Agreed. The original City Hall station was a terrible idea, based on warm and fuzzies about the heart of the city and a bike rack in the garage, but ignoring the transportation needs of nearly everyone.

 

[muller877]

I'm hoping that Osgoode gets punted to the west side of University to improve access into Entertainment district.

In terms of transfers, They aren't expecting large volumes of transfers at Osgoode or Queen.

For station boxes I think Osgoode is in the right location. The East end is right at the N-S PATH and the West end is at University. If it was further west it would not connect to the PATH (other than a new long tunnel) and would reduce the usefulness to the users. An added benefit is that University line users can use use the subway platform to access the PATH.

For the Yonge box I think it should be further East (centered on Yonge St). The West end of the box can be at the N-S PATH connection (towards KPMG/Deloitte). The centre is the subway and the East end can be close to St Michael's.

 

[gweed123]

Eventually they might realize that not everyone wants to get to City Hall and might put the station boxes somewhere that makes transferring easier. I think there might be a subconscious bias here that the planners happen to work at City Hall and assume that everyone else wants to go there too.

I mean, why is it that every rapid transit line interchange we build has Bloor-Yonge as their inspiration? Cedarvale, Yonge-Eglinton, and now Queen and Osgoode stations all seem to be designed to make passenger flow as much of a bottleneck as possible.

Here's the thing though: Queen and Osgoode won't be huge interchange stations. They're destinations. Bloor-Yonge is a major pinch point because most people's trips go through it to get somewhere else. For most people getting off trains at Queen or Osgoode, their next move is to head for the exits, not the other platform. Where the exits are located is far more important than where the platforms are relative to each other.

I'm hoping that Osgoode gets punted to the west side of University to improve access into Entertainment district.

Agreed. That also means that any future station at Spadina can have an eastern entrance that makes the surface distance between the western entrance of Osgoode and the eastern entrance of Spadina sufficient for that type of street.

 

[M II A II R II K]

It can then have a stop at Bathurst, and then skip over 2km to have the next stop at Dufferin, and skip Landsdowne and have a stop at Ronvesvalles.

 

[Leo_Chan]

It can then have a stop at Bathurst, and then skip over 2km to have the next stop at Dufferin, and skip Landsdowne and have a stop at Ronvesvalles.

Any idea to extend the first phase construction west of University will not happen. Save these ideas for phase 3/4 of the Relief Line.

 

[crs1026]

Any idea to extend the first phase construction west of University will not happen. Save these ideas for phase 3/4 of the Relief Line.

You’re utterly correct that this is a nonstarter - and it’s a huge mistake. So much ridership potential. And, that proven ridership may be needed to sell phases 2+. We haven’t seen the last of Toronto politicians losing momentum after the first stub is built.

- Paul

 

[Avenue]

have a stop at Bathurst, and then skip over 2km to have the next stop at Dufferin, and skip Landsdowne and have a stop at Ronvesvalles.

After having built so many Glencairns, Old Mills, and Bessarions in low density suburbia, why are we not building stations in the most active commercial strip of the country? That's crazy. DRL West will not only have Queen's ridership, It'll also induce new ridership and additionally steal from King (big time) and Dundas.