Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

minilude said:
http://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha...yor-john-torys-transit-promises-analysis.html

Looks like Smart Track officially be incorporated into GO-RER initiative, can anyone tell me what is the price tag now? Does it mean Province will shoulder all the cost? Tory should save the 8 billion (with 2.6 billion from Federal already committed) to DRL to Eglinton at least.
Click to expand...

That of course would be all too sensible a route to take. Maybe the city can pay for the new RER stations within city limits.

AoD
 
Last edited:
Well now that we've confirmed the obvious, this does actually have some fairly dire implications for our Yonge relief efforts. All of our Yonge relief modelling was done assuming 22 stations at TTC fare with either 5 or 15 min frequencies. "SmartTrack" won't have 22 stations, won't have TTC fares, and will have 9 min frequencies (east of Main Station). This means that actual relief provided by SmartTrack will be significantly less than the relief currently modelled for it.

Recall that the Relief Line (Pape via Queen) was modelled to reduce Yonge Line ridership to 36,000 pphpd. This is 100% of capacity. The 15 min SmartTrack at TTC fare and 22 stations was modelled to take another 1,400 people off the Yonge Line. But with recent developments, real world additional SmartTrack relief will be significantly less than 1,400 people. Metrolinx's modelling of a 5 to 10 min SmartTrack service with limited stops only diverted a few hundred people from the Yonge Line.

SmartTrack as originally conceptualized would've bought us some time. But now we need to move forward with the Relief Line Long even more urgently .
 
  • Like
Reactions: rbt
Relief line long (to Sheppard) would cost how much? Close to $10bn?

That'll suck up any transit funding for the foreseeable future, as Toronto will be footing quite a chunk of the bill. Forget DRL West, additional LRTs, TTC improvements.. For at least the next 20 years.

That's why I'm against it.
 
Filip said:
Relief line long (to Sheppard) would cost how much? Close to $10bn?

That'll suck up any transit funding for the foreseeable future, as Toronto will be footing quite a chunk of the bill. Forget DRL West, additional LRTs, TTC improvements.. For at least the next 20 years.

That's why I'm against it.
Click to expand...

I am against any subway extension north of Eglinton Ave. to Sheppard, why? There are more important areas to improve transit.
 
I'm against DRL beyond Eglinton (but probably can go as far to Lawrence) as well. It just doesn't do anything good to the sheppard subway. If there is plan to intensify the Sheppard east corridor to a subway level then we can discuss the extension to Sheppard
 
Because the Relief Line to Sheppard will divert people in north west Toronto away from Yonge Line:

ZBqTOGl.png


Which will cut Yonge Line crowding by a third, and allow the Relief Line to have the same ridership as the Yonge and B-D Lines:
VXemwHb.png


Also allowing for downtown-bound commutes twice as fast as today.
 
I don't think anyone is contemplating a relief line built to Sheppard on day one - think of the original Yonge line to Eglinton - this will be similar. It's the first increment of a new trunk line.

AoD
 
But what's phase II then? Further north, or west?

Luckily, the political climate will ensure something goes west before it goes all the way north. That's how things have been done for the last 100 years, and that's how they'll continue. Thank goodness for that. Otherwise what, my taxes go up for others to have a stress free commute? Gotta be selfish in a city with very, very finite funds.
 
minilude said:
I'm against DRL beyond Eglinton (but probably can go as far to Lawrence) as well. It just doesn't do anything good to the sheppard subway. If there is plan to intensify the Sheppard east corridor to a subway level then we can discuss the extension to Sheppard
Click to expand...

Actually, the Relief Line to Eglinton is likely the worst performing part of the Relief Line. The way the Relief Line works is by diverting commuters on surface routes in eastern Toronto away from the Yonge Line. The issue with bringing the Relief Line to Eglinton is that, because of the geography of the area, there are only a few Yonge-bound bus routes that the Relief Line could intersect, all of whom have relatively low ridership. The only major route the Relief Line to Eglinton would intercept is the Eglinton Line, and that's a line of only 5,400 pphpd. Even if the line diverted a third of Eglinton Line riders away from Yonge, that'd only be diverting about 1,000 people.
 
Filip said:
But what's phase II then? Further north, or west?

Luckily, the political climate will ensure something goes west before it goes all the way north. That's how things have been done for the last 100 years, and that's how they'll continue. Thank goodness for that. Otherwise what, my taxes go up for others to have a stress free commute? Gotta be selfish in a city with very, very finite funds.
Click to expand...

It will have to go north first to provide Yonge relief. The Yonge Line will be overcapacity around 2031 without a northern Relief Line extension. Toronto City Planning has already said that the Relief Line extension north is their top priority.
 
Filip said:
But what's phase II then? Further north, or west?

Luckily, the political climate will ensure something goes west before it goes all the way north. That's how things have been done for the last 100 years, and that's how they'll continue. Thank goodness for that. Otherwise what, my taxes go up for others to have a stress free commute? Gotta be selfish in a city with very, very finite funds.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't see why it is something that is either or - quite frankly, I think we should do both - a better debate would be what alignment it should take.

As to the argument that it should go to Sheppard first - it has utility, but RL should be about network as well, and that's where the western extension should come in.

AoD
 
TheTigerMaster said:
It will have to go north first to provide Yonge relief. The Yonge Line will be overcapacity around 2031 without a northern Relief Line extension. Toronto City Planning has already said that the Relief Line extension north is their top priority.
Click to expand...
And you believe them? They said the same thing in the mid 80s.

If (big if) the DRL even gets off the ground, Phase I probably won't go north of Eglinton, while Phase II will probably extend the line west. While planning can huff and puff about sending it all the way north, politicking will ensure it won't.

And my taxes thank the politicians for that!
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top