So are you proposing a DRL subway for Queen/Adelaide/Richmond/orKing and a frequent stop REX line for the railway corridor?
I'm a leetle confused.
42
Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s
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So are you proposing a DRL subway for Queen/Adelaide/Richmond/orKing and a frequent stop REX line for the railway corridor?
I'm a leetle confused.
42
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Don't worry, I confuse myself 96% of the time.
Yes. I am proposing a frequent stop REX line for the railway corridor, with through service at Union and short turns to ensure that 905er don't crowd downtowners out of the trains.
A branch of the REX could cut across the core on the Richmond/Adelaide corridor to add capacity without abandoning the King and Queen streetcars. Call me sentimental, but i think downtown streetcars are to Toronto what yellow cabs are to NYC.
This assumes a new fare system for GO, where riders pay the same fares as an equivalent trip on the non-GO system. I support such a fare system.
Panzerfaust
Active Member
Great, so by the time I'm 27 years old, they might be considering a DRL. Hey, given my aspirations to be a transit planner, maybe I can even work on it by then. 
Some of us will be double that age by then so count yourself lucky.
Panzerfaust
Active Member
Yeah, I know. I'm just using it as a timeline, given how I'm probably one of the younger guys on here. It's absurd to think that I'm in grade eleven now, and by the time they're even considering a DRL I'll be out of university for five years. Hey, maybe I'll actually get to ride it before I retire at this rate! Never mind the people on here who might not live to see it running...
With any luck we can lead a push to get this considered sooner. It's a lot more helpful and important than LRT lines to Malvern and subways to Vaughan, in any case.
allabootmatt
Senior Member
By the time the DRL gets "considered," I might actually be living in Toronto!
Dan416
Senior Member
74% of UrbanToronto forumers support the DRL as subway given a choice between subway and LRT, so it's definitely needed.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
Nobody who supports the DRL supports abandoning any streetcar lines through the downtown core. The DRL subway is a great partner for light rail and streetcar routes. It will relieve the Queen and King routes, freeing up space for them to move boatloads of people going on short trips within the the downtown core. I would suggest terminating the Beach streetcar route at Queen East station, and operating a new route westward through the downtown core. Shorter lines would be a boon to reliability.
The DRL is also ideal for people coming from places like Long Branch and Mimico, because it plays very nicely with the WWLRT. Right now, that LRT route doesn't really have a decent way to get into downtown. They're talking about running it down on Bremner, but that's pretty far from where everybody's going, and it's likely to be as slow as Spadina. With the DRL, people could have an express, rapid transit ride on the Queensway and Lakeshore rail corridor to Dufferin and the Rail Corridor, where people could transfer to the subway to get downtown. That would mean thousands of people could avoid taking the bus all the way up to Bloor, and then the subway back down again to get to the downtown core, providing further relief to all the existing subway lines and providing faster and more logical trips.
The DRL is also ideal for people coming from places like Long Branch and Mimico, because it plays very nicely with the WWLRT. Right now, that LRT route doesn't really have a decent way to get into downtown. They're talking about running it down on Bremner, but that's pretty far from where everybody's going, and it's likely to be as slow as Spadina. With the DRL, people could have an express, rapid transit ride on the Queensway and Lakeshore rail corridor to Dufferin and the Rail Corridor, where people could transfer to the subway to get downtown. That would mean thousands of people could avoid taking the bus all the way up to Bloor, and then the subway back down again to get to the downtown core, providing further relief to all the existing subway lines and providing faster and more logical trips.
allabootmatt
Senior Member
On the making it happen front, a form letter for Councillors and MPPs has been posted to the Facebook group. A copy is also appended below. Please send on to your representatives to help move this thing up, and tell your friends to do the same...
Dear XXXX
I am writing as a constituent and transit rider both concerned by the absence of new rapid transit for central Toronto in the TTC's current expansion plans and very excited by the suggestion of a new Downtown Relief Line (DRL) subway which has recently begun to attract media attention. The DRL is a revival of an old TTC subway plan to link Pape station, on the Danforth line, to Union via the east end of the central city, continuing west and north along the Weston railway corridor to Dundas West station. It would relieve tremendous current crowding on the Yonge Line and the Yonge/Bloor interchange, and provide the extra capacity in the city centre to handle an influx of riders from new suburban subway and light-rail projects.
Even more importantly, the DRL would serve a huge range of major development nodes that are currently reliant on slow, unreliable and overcrowded streetcar service, including the Distillery District, West Donlands and East Bayfront redevelopment zones, Cityplace, Liberty Village, and the Queen West Triangle.
The opportunities for eventual extension of the DRL would be tremendous. Beyond the intermodal station at Dundas West, the Weston rail corridor passes through the Junction and Weston areas before passing just east of Pearson Airport. Similar extensions would be possible in the east of the city, north of Pape station.
This new subway line could be largely placed on existing surface railway alignments, and would thus require relatively little expensive tunneling.
In short, the DRL would be a tremendously beneficial addition to Toronto's subway network, finally bringing true rapid transit to large and densely populated portions of the city which currently have none. Central Toronto is the cultural and commercial heart of the city-region (and indeed of the country), and it urgently requires better transport links.
Thus it is extremely encouraging that the likes of TTC chairman Adam Giambrone and Metrolinx head Rob MacIsaac have acknowledged the need for a DRL ("TTC to consider relief line by 2018, chief says," National Post, 16 April 2008). However, given the rapid development occurring in central Toronto right now, and the continued overcrowding of existing streetcar services, it is critical that this new subway project be pursued as soon as possible. Beginning consideration of the plan in ten years will simply be too late, especially because the planned extensions of the Yonge and Spadina lines will lead to further overcrowding.
While all of the rapid transit expansions currently planned in Toronto are justified in different ways, surely the potential benefits of the DRL are comparable or greater than those envisioned to accrue from currently-planned suburban subway extensions. The need for new rapid transit in central Toronto is urgent, and cannot wait decades to be met without serious consequences for the economic health of the city-region.
Thus I urge you to do your utmost to move the planning and construction of this critical and highly cost-effective piece of infrastructure to the top of Toronto's list of transit priorities.
Sincerely,
XXXXX
Dear XXXX
I am writing as a constituent and transit rider both concerned by the absence of new rapid transit for central Toronto in the TTC's current expansion plans and very excited by the suggestion of a new Downtown Relief Line (DRL) subway which has recently begun to attract media attention. The DRL is a revival of an old TTC subway plan to link Pape station, on the Danforth line, to Union via the east end of the central city, continuing west and north along the Weston railway corridor to Dundas West station. It would relieve tremendous current crowding on the Yonge Line and the Yonge/Bloor interchange, and provide the extra capacity in the city centre to handle an influx of riders from new suburban subway and light-rail projects.
Even more importantly, the DRL would serve a huge range of major development nodes that are currently reliant on slow, unreliable and overcrowded streetcar service, including the Distillery District, West Donlands and East Bayfront redevelopment zones, Cityplace, Liberty Village, and the Queen West Triangle.
The opportunities for eventual extension of the DRL would be tremendous. Beyond the intermodal station at Dundas West, the Weston rail corridor passes through the Junction and Weston areas before passing just east of Pearson Airport. Similar extensions would be possible in the east of the city, north of Pape station.
This new subway line could be largely placed on existing surface railway alignments, and would thus require relatively little expensive tunneling.
In short, the DRL would be a tremendously beneficial addition to Toronto's subway network, finally bringing true rapid transit to large and densely populated portions of the city which currently have none. Central Toronto is the cultural and commercial heart of the city-region (and indeed of the country), and it urgently requires better transport links.
Thus it is extremely encouraging that the likes of TTC chairman Adam Giambrone and Metrolinx head Rob MacIsaac have acknowledged the need for a DRL ("TTC to consider relief line by 2018, chief says," National Post, 16 April 2008). However, given the rapid development occurring in central Toronto right now, and the continued overcrowding of existing streetcar services, it is critical that this new subway project be pursued as soon as possible. Beginning consideration of the plan in ten years will simply be too late, especially because the planned extensions of the Yonge and Spadina lines will lead to further overcrowding.
While all of the rapid transit expansions currently planned in Toronto are justified in different ways, surely the potential benefits of the DRL are comparable or greater than those envisioned to accrue from currently-planned suburban subway extensions. The need for new rapid transit in central Toronto is urgent, and cannot wait decades to be met without serious consequences for the economic health of the city-region.
Thus I urge you to do your utmost to move the planning and construction of this critical and highly cost-effective piece of infrastructure to the top of Toronto's list of transit priorities.
Sincerely,
XXXXX
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Wait a minute, are you proposing that electric S-bahn style heavy rail trains -which weigh 240 tonnes when empty and are powered by 25 kV AV overhead catenary - trundle down a busy city street?
My understanding is that REX is S-bahn. You're talking about something like this on Richmond street, right?
ShonTron
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Someone on a comment either here, the Facebook group or Spacing suggested turning all the GO lines into LRT.
I guess that comment writer had it half-right - smaller trains more often is the answer, but seems to be wrapped up in the "LRT can solve all of our problems, LRT fits all" line of reasoning, where EMU or DMU - essentially heavy rail, railway-grade, vehicles is the approriate technology here.
I guess that comment writer had it half-right - smaller trains more often is the answer, but seems to be wrapped up in the "LRT can solve all of our problems, LRT fits all" line of reasoning, where EMU or DMU - essentially heavy rail, railway-grade, vehicles is the approriate technology here.
CDL.TO
Moderator
I understand there's a city in China that built a heavy-rail S-Bahn-style line and called it an "LRT" due to the popularity of the term these days.
ShonTron
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I know! It's magic, I tells ya.
doady
Senior Member
It is an idea worth looking into. Just rebrand all the subways as LRT and then suddenly politcians will support subway expansion again and we will get our DRL.
CDL.TO
Moderator
Here we go...
Binhai LRT in Tianjin, China:
Binhai LRT in Tianjin, China: