Toronto/Montreal comparisons (ain't pretty...)

[junctionist]

Toronto had few impressive historic buildings to begin with, so we never could compete in that regard. We are a city of the future, not the past. Our historic buildings are quite modest and somewhat drab. It's just not our forte. I just hope grey glass boxes are not our legacy.

Actually, we had many grand buildings that were quite impressive. A sampling of their impressive details can be found in Guildwood Park. Toronto was a beautiful city by the late 19th century that was clearly ambitious, if conservative.

 

[Torontovibe]

Actually, we had many grand buildings that were quite impressive. A sampling of their impressive details can be found in Guildwood Park. Toronto was a beautiful city by the late 19th century that was clearly ambitious, if conservative.

Really? When I see pictures of Toronto before 1920 (of the downtown core) it looks like one dark, depressing, grimy industrial town.

 

[RC8]

 

[Tewder]

Really? When I see pictures of Toronto before 1920 (of the downtown core) it looks like one dark, depressing, grimy industrial town.

Keep in mind that you are seeing pictures of the 19th century, right? You know, the age of industrialism and so on? Don't let the gentrification/rejuvenation of historic neighbourhoods in other cities or the images of glossy MGM movies colour your judgement. Yes, the era was grimy and smoggy, but not just in Toronto. The wharves and rails and industry were the height of prosperity in those days, the very prosperity that built the neo-gothic mansions and follies of the time... and I don't know, the grittiness just makes it all the more interesting to me.

 

[junctionist]

Really? When I see pictures of Toronto before 1920 (of the downtown core) it looks like one dark, depressing, grimy industrial town.

Many of the historic photos we see today were taken during some construction project, perhaps making the city look messier than it was. But the built form along many downtown streets was grand. Look at Toronto Street's former grandeur. Front Street, Bay, and King were very sophisticated streets in downtown (and beyond), with many great buildings like this one on Front. Lots of great landmarks went up then. It's really worth reading Eric Arthur's classic Toronto: No Mean City to rediscover that great city of the past. Furthermore, historic photos show details that interesting urban details like a series of streets paved with stone blocks and bricks and all sorts of street vendors and businesses.

 

[Torontovibe]

Many of the historic photos we see today were taken during some construction project, perhaps making the city look messier than it was. But the built form along many downtown streets was grand. Look at Toronto Street's former grandeur. Front Street, Bay, and King were very sophisticated streets in downtown (and beyond), with many great buildings like this one on Front. Lots of great landmarks went up then. It's really worth reading Eric Arthur's classic Toronto: No Mean City to rediscover that great city of the past. Furthermore, historic photos show details that interesting urban details like a series of streets paved with stone blocks and bricks and all sorts of street vendors and businesses.

Yes, I've seen those buildings and they are quite nice buildings but when you see a bigger skyline view, especially of the waterfront, it looked quite grim. I'm sure glad I wasn't around in those days.

 

[adma]

Lotsa Euro-cities of that time were even grimier and more "industrial". Yet to dispose of what remains of that period would be thoughtless--indeed, Bilbao gains from the counterpoint btw/the Gehry-era stuff and what remains of the old...

 

[tkip]

My mother, who's in her 70's now, use to tell us as kids that when she first came to Toronto many decades ago, the city had many fine, historical buildings that she saw demolished and replaced with modern structures. She lamented the sheer scale of the loss of these buildings torn down in the name of progress. She's never been a fan of the modern glass skyscraper.

 

[PUTOTO]

How much simple and clear can I be here..
I can tell you what people(happened to be mostly Japanese) around me shortly talked about Toronto and Montreal, during last 6 years of my stay in Canada.


2005 Fall
Some of people(mostly Japanese short term visitors) I used to hang out with said and agreed on
"Toronto is a town with not a lot of places to see or visit"


2006 Spring
My close Japanese friend "N" said on a very harsh windy winter day, just a few days before he went back to Japan.
"Oh my godddd(super super cold)! I will never come back to this city again."


2008 Sometime
A Japanese girl from Tokyo I met in a language exchange club at UofT said
"I can't find a single aspect better than Japan here"


2008
The old friend "N" posted on his Mixi (facebook kind of website in Japan)
"the #1st choice of place you want to live in the world - Montreal"


2010 Fall
I met a Japanese guy in Chicago's hostel who stayed in the United States for 8 years and currently traveling all across North America. He said he also visited Toronto and Montreal during his travel. I remember the clear and strong comments he made to me about both cities.
"If I can't immigrate to the US since it's hard to find a job now and so on, I would love to move to Montreal."
"Toronto was just garbage."
lol...


Each time the comments were just as short as what I wrote. People didn't talk about cities in North America and compare them all the time, but they sometimes did show their thoughts on both cities during conversations. Unfortunately, they didn't tell me in details or I didn't have chance to ask them specifically "why". But overall I got a strong impression that most people loved Montreal no matter how small it was while Toronto was just a poor small town comparing to where they're from.

 

[RC8]

If we go by reviews I've struggled to come across tourists who don't speak wonders of horrible places like Miami or Los Angeles.

Montreal have incredible PR, whereas Toronto and Ottawa clearly don't. When people go to Montreal they usually stick to the old city centre, whereas most tourists in Toronto are led to the uneventful harbourfront and the cluttered horror that is Yonge and Dundas.

May I add that while I have nothing particularly against asians and their opinions, I tend to think they are as good judging western cities as the Etobicoke crowd are at judging asian cities (i.e. not a clue). Most of them would prefer a neat very corporate stiff and unventful touristy area than the alleyways with independent coffee shops and crafty pubs I frequent. Most of my asian friends who've lived in this city for years don't understand why I bother going to places without air conditioning, etc. Not that I'd expect westerners to be any more sensitive to their own traditions in asia.

 

[RC8]

2005 Fall
Some of people(mostly Japanese short term visitors) I used to hang out with said and agreed on
"Toronto is a town with not a lot of places to see or visit"

See? this type of remarks are very ignorant, no matter where they come from. If I can spend 3 days in Guelph visiting local places and having a great time I'm sure people can entertain themselves in Toronto for a while.

People who can't appreciate the value of things have a hard time being tourists in cities that aren't hyped up by thousands of ads. These are the ones who say Montreal has a lot of places to visit whereas Toronto and Ottawa don't - these are the ones who think Stella is a premium beer.

 

[PUTOTO]

Yes, I think you're right. I also think that people should be able to appreciate the value of things have whether it's a diamond or just a rock.
But the World that we live is not as nice and appreciative as many of us, sometimes ignorant and cruel. People don't buy product A if it's is less pretty or good in quality. People pay little attention to something that is not stunning, special, or extraordinary. I think Tourism can be as simple as that.

I personally have been living in Toronto for more than 5 years but am still not so much convinced by the place.
This fast growing, relatively dynamic and vibrant city lacks many things that people in the thread already mentioned in comparison to Montreal. I strongly agree.

Considering the pretty, relatively more dynamic, and healthier(?) landscape, location in the continent, geography and history, I honestly think Canadians know Montreal deserves more attention from this country than Toronto. Then I learned about the Quebec's French language overconfidence and sufferings of Anglos who actually did a good job for the province and the city. I don't see NYC becoming the biggest and most important city in the US if the same thing was happening there? (first of all they won't allow such thing to happen which will only create this kind of mass and confusion in Canada)

Anyway, Toronto definitely needs lots of work to be done in order to really shine like a jewel (has a beautiful colour of its own). Wanting other people to be nicer and more appreciative might be an excuse!
Money is always an issue here and what people always talk about I know but in my opinion it is highly necessary for "bold" projects to take place to transform and enrich the city. We need more people who can really see the bigger picture for Toronto and know what's more valuable than short term profit or immediate income increase.

 

[ladyscraper]

If we go by reviews I've struggled to come across tourists who don't speak wonders of horrible places like Miami or Los Angeles.

haha so true. "I saw the street sign that says MELROSE PLACE! What a great city!"

 

[adma]

Not that I'd expect westerners to be any more sensitive to their own traditions in asia.

My attitude is: if they're obtusely insensitive and superficial re the places they visit, they're likely equally obtusely insensitive and superficial re what's in their own hometown...

 

[Thanos]

these are the ones who think Stella is a premium beer.

People actually think that? No seriously, do they?

I'm in Vancouver right now, and up until 2 days ago i would say that Quebec City was hands down the most beautiful city in Canada. Now, my opinions has changed for Vancouver.
I never understood everybody's obsession of Montreal. I guess it's because i lived there and got too experience everything.

Oh btw, Old Town Quebec City blows Old Montreal every way possible.