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Toronto/Montreal comparisons (ain't pretty...)

If you think Toronto is cold and unfriendly.....here's a challenge for you....visit Roncesvalles, which is my hood. You'll see people stopping and talking all the time. I've only lived here for about about 3 years, but I literally can't just walk out my door and go somewhere in a "quick" moment. I get stopped by people on so many streets, and people I know in my loft building, who now know me and want to chat. I go in a store and have long conversations with the owners I know by name (because I made a point of asking them). I get addressed in name by them as well. I am also great friends with two of them now. They are of different ethnic backgrounds than mine. I knew no one when I moved here. Now I get invited to bbq's, out for drinks, I'm given discounts in stores (I get called the VIP by one friend) when I go in her store. I have people watching my cats when I travel (yes others around me have my keys). The secret to finding out the real Toronto is to do what I have always done whether I'm here or in Montreal....smile at someone, see something happening and make a good-natured comment, show interest in others....don't expect them to only show interest in you (too narcissistic). I've lived in small towns, big cities, mid size cities and in a rural area....it works everywhere! Just a secret.....get a dog, if you're shy.....my dog (happens to be an interesting and beautiful animal) get tons of attention and I get to know even more people through him. Yeah, I've had some defeating moments...usually caused by texting/ear bud people (that's everywhere nowadays, yuck)...but then I enjoy being so much a part of the environment I'm in...I hate wearing sunglasses because I feel they filter out the experience. The truth is....if you want to see the outgoing, friendly and warm side of anywhere (Toronto/Montreal/Paris/New York/Saskatoon/Medicine Hat)......you have to be a person who is not afraid to show that side of yourself.....a smile almost always garners a smile!! A city is a structure...the people are what make it ....and you are responsible for making it your experience, as well.
 
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In previous threads I brought up the issue of the unintended consequences of character and our value judgements not taking this into account. I'm not making any judgements with respect to general behaviour in this or that city. What I am suggesting is that ALL general human behaviour exists because it is a winning behavioural strategy.

What does this have to do with this conversation? Well for instance we all seem to want to race towards being the most "friendly". My question however is is being "friendly" good? It certainly can be. However, on a societal scale this individual assertion starts to break down.

It is my theory for instance that there tends to be a reciprical relationship between friendliness and acceptance. That is, that the most friendly people are the least accepting and the least friendly people are the most accepting. This tends to hold true for small versus big settlements. Small towns are the most warm and friendly but they are also the least tolerant and least accepting. Infact, big cities are often mostly made up from people fleeing small town environments. The city is more cold but it is also very tolerant and accepting. Clearly, many (infact most people given our 80% urbanization rate) prefer to accept the bargain of less friendliness and warmth for more tolerance and acceptance, given the choice.
 
Certainly- individuals generally adapt their behavior, such as level of 'friendliness' in relation to the environment they are in. 'Acceptance', the tolerance of others, is more inherent to larger communities; cities do grow from small towns after all. I think there are a lot of things, such as socio-economics, culture, history, and even climate that very much factor into determining the relative 'friendliness' of individuals in a community, while population size is a significant factor for obvious reasons.
 
I've always found New Yorkers to be very friendly... just don't get in their way or slow them down.
 
^That made me laugh remembering an encounter I had in Manhattan. I don't know what people posting about biking in New York are talking about but when I brought my bike to NYC people looked at me like I was some kind of alien because I was biking on the street and not just in the park. I found people were very friendly and helpful if you asked them say for directions. But one time when I was walking my bike onto the sidewalk this guy yells at me coming in the opposite direction and says in a thick New York accent "Hey, I'm walkin' here". Classic.
 
Outside of downtown Montreal people are so rude. I have family members from Quebec, when they visit they always comment how polite and considerate people are in Toronto. Like holding doors open, most employee's in cafes/ stores say hello or good morning, i noticed my visit to Quebec city ( Sainte-Foy area) last year, people there just let the door slam in your face. At pubs and restaurants they don't say hello or how are you just a loud oui????? I like the city of Montreal but no way i could live any where else in Quebec.
 
I have lots of family in Montreal, and I like the city a lot. I love the Mile End area in particular:

http://www.urbanphoto.net/blog/2007/01/01/welcome-to-mile-end/

I would actually argue that Montreal is arguably more New York-ish than Toronto. This is not a put-down at all, I like this city a lot. Particularly Brooklyn. After all, both are real apartment cities, Toronto has moved in that direction but it started off more as a "city of homeowners" a la Chicago, Philadelphia and Baltimore. (If any NYC borough resembles Toronto most it is Queens).

Westmount kinda reminds me of Toronto though (even the street signs), particularly Rosedale/Summerhill/East Annex-ish. Imagine if Toronto had never annexed the Annex and Rosedale.
 
King of Kensington said:
I have lots of family in Montreal, and I like the city a lot. I love the Mile End area in particular:

http://www.urbanphoto.net/blog/2007/01/01/welcome-to-mile-end/

I would actually argue that Montreal is arguably more New York-ish than Toronto. This is not a put-down at all, I like this city a lot. Particularly Brooklyn. After all, both are real apartment cities, Toronto has moved in that direction but it started off more as a "city of homeowners" a la Chicago, Philadelphia and Baltimore. (If any NYC borough resembles Toronto most it is Queens).

Westmount kinda reminds me of Toronto though (even the street signs), particularly Rosedale/Summerhill/East Annex-ish. Imagine if Toronto had never annexed the Annex and Rosedale.
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hmm, I hear this a lot but Toronto is really more of an apartment city then many others ... there's a key difference though, and that's we have a large stock of homes around the core. But if you look at the city on a whole a lot more people live in Apartments here. Even downtown , it's like this as well.

But you're right that Montreal's inner core has a lot more 3-5 story apartment buildings then we do i.e. in their place we have houses in the inner core. In the outer core we tend to have many more clusters of high rises throughout the 416 and even the 905 to a certain extent.

Also like you said this reminds a little of Brooklyn.
 
I knew a woman a couple of years ago who was from Quebec. Just outside Montreal. She moved to Toronto and told me that she found people in Toronto to be friendlier. She's francophone and said that people in Montreal were rude and full of themselves. She also said she thought Toronto was a better city than Montreal on a number of levels.
 
King of Kensington said:
I have lots of family in Montreal, and I like the city a lot. I love the Mile End area in particular:

http://www.urbanphoto.net/blog/2007/01/01/welcome-to-mile-end/

I would actually argue that Montreal is arguably more New York-ish than Toronto. This is not a put-down at all, I like this city a lot. Particularly Brooklyn. After all, both are real apartment cities, Toronto has moved in that direction but it started off more as a "city of homeowners" a la Chicago, Philadelphia and Baltimore. (If any NYC borough resembles Toronto most it is Queens).

Westmount kinda reminds me of Toronto though (even the street signs), particularly Rosedale/Summerhill/East Annex-ish. Imagine if Toronto had never annexed the Annex and Rosedale.
Click to expand...

Yes I would agree that Montreal has a more of a Northeast US city feel, perhaps due to the older architecture and stone houses and apts. Funny you should say that about Queens, I was there for the first time a few years back and driving from La Guardia my spouse and I were remarking on how it looked exactly like the Bloor West area.
 
^Nonsense. Mtl is just simply in a different league.

I think if Toronto had kept all its heritage buildings, old churches etc in tact it would be slightly more comparable....

Both cities are great for different reasons, but for absolute urbanity in the pre-war sense, Mtl simply kicks T.O.'s ass...hard!
 
urbandreamer said:
^Nonsense. Mtl is just simply in a different league.

I think if Toronto had kept all its heritage buildings, old churches etc in tact it would be slightly more comparable....

Both cities are great for different reasons, but for absolute urbanity in the pre-war sense, Mtl simply kicks T.O.'s ass...hard!
Click to expand...

OttoSchloss was obviously talking about the contemporary cities, which are in fact quite similar in terms of street life. Toronto did keep many of its heritage buildings outside of the Financial District. They tend to stand out less, obscured by overhead wires and lots of other streetscape clutter.
 
Toronto had few impressive historic buildings to begin with, so we never could compete in that regard. We are a city of the future, not the past. Our historic buildings are quite modest and somewhat drab. It's just not our forte. I just hope grey glass boxes are not our legacy.
 
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