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[jys]

I'm surprised there hasn't been any mention of this at Toronto City Council. They have been all over/upset that they have to "foot the bill" for the TTC stations running in York Region. Here is an opportunity they have to make some money (if they took over service between Renforth and Kipling/Islington Station). It would force all those who have been commuting to Islington/Kipling only paying a MiWay fare to also pay a TTC fare. The station is right on Eglinton, correct? Which is technically right on the border between Mississauga and Toronto at this location.

1. Most people on route 109(between Islington and Renforth) are either going to the subway or have just gone off of it, so they have already/will pay a TTC fare.
2. It would also force those on route 109 to transfer to another TTC bus or vice versa.

 

[Steve X]

I'm surprised there hasn't been any mention of this at Toronto City Council. They have been all over/upset that they have to "foot the bill" for the TTC stations running in York Region. Here is an opportunity they have to make some money (if they took over service between Renforth and Kipling/Islington Station). It would force all those who have been commuting to Islington/Kipling only paying a MiWay fare to also pay a TTC fare. The station is right on Eglinton, correct? Which is technically right on the border between Mississauga and Toronto at this location.

This is an excellent way for the TTC to loose money by operating a service that only have one peak direction and very few boarding location. It's basically as bad as the premium downtown express. Trust me, Miway doesn't want to operate the trip down the highway if they don't have to. In fact they shorten a few routes to reduce that cost.

 

[jys]

This is an excellent way for the TTC to loose money by operating a service that only have one peak direction and very few boarding location. It's basically as bad as the premium downtown express. Trust me, Miway doesn't want to operate the trip down the highway if they don't have to. In fact they shorten a few routes to reduce that cost.

Well, it's supposedly the quickest way for buses to go from Square One to Islington.

 

[Steve X]

Well, it's supposedly the quickest way for buses to go from Square One to Islington.

Quick but have no boarding opportunities beyond Renforth and half an hour (round trip from Renfoth to Islington) of unproductive service is really expensive. I estimate it ranges from $50+ each trip (or higher for artics) just for a bus to do that. If Miway could just cut all trips to Islington and dump people at the city limits, they will save tens of millions annually.

It would be possible for Miway to just terminate most buses at Renforth if the Eglinton West LRT extension is built to Renforth. All the downtown folks can skip Islington instead transfer at Eglinton West(Ceadarvale).

 

[toaster29]

1. Most people on route 109(between Islington and Renforth) are either going to the subway or have just gone off of it, so they have already/will pay a TTC fare.
2. It would also force those on route 109 to transfer to another TTC bus or vice versa.

Well, it's obviously not most, but from my, admitted anecdotal, observations and discussions, there are a good chunk of people who commute to/near Kipling/Islington who have strategically chosen to live in Mississauga.

 

[jys]

Well, it's obviously not most, but from my, admitted anecdotal, observations and discussions, there are a good chunk of people who commute to/near Kipling/Islington who have strategically chosen to live in Mississauga.

OK, fair enough. Let's assume that you're right. But there is still the problem that 109 is an express route going from Meadowvale to Islington via Square One, so Miway ill either have to transfer the whole route to TTC(impossible) or keep operating it at the whole length, or else there would be no express bus from Square One to Islington as it does not make sense to not go via the Mississauga Transitway.

 

[Steve X]

OK, fair enough. Let's assume that you're right. But there is still the problem that 109 is an express route going from Meadowvale to Islington via Square One, so Miway ill either have to transfer the whole route to TTC(impossible) or keep operating it at the whole length, or else there would be no express bus from Square One to Islington as it does not make sense to not go via the Mississauga Transitway.

Just remember when the new Kipling Terminal is built, all the buses will end up at Kipling. For one of those people that work at those towers at Islington Station, tough on them. They'll have to foot out an extra $3 or walk from Kipling. On the bright side, the walk would be easier as the six point interchange is coming down and would be more pedestrian friendly. It might as well drive them back into their cars.

 

[drum118]

Just remember when the new Kipling Terminal is built, all the buses will end up at Kipling. For one of those people that work at those towers at Islington Station, tough on them. They'll have to foot out an extra $3 or walk from Kipling. On the bright side, the walk would be easier as the six point interchange is coming down and would be more pedestrian friendly. It might as well drive them back into their cars.

There will be buses stopping at Renforth not Kipling due to lack of bus bays at Kipling.

1 or 26 will still service Islington after stopping at Kipling both ways.

 

[jys]

There will be buses stopping at Renforth not Kipling due to lack of bus bays at Kipling.

1 or 26 will still service Islington after stopping at Kipling both ways.

Hmm, that's interesting. Where did you hear that?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Just remember when the new Kipling Terminal is built, all the buses will end up at Kipling. For one of those people that work at those towers at Islington Station, tough on them. They'll have to foot out an extra $3 or walk from Kipling. On the bright side, the walk would be easier as the six point interchange is coming down and would be more pedestrian friendly. It might as well drive them back into their cars.

How many people using MT actually work at that Islington node, vs. taking the subway? Having used that route for years, my guess is not all that many. Plus the gravity of the node will be shifting to Kipling anyways.

AoD

 

[drum118]

How many people using MT actually work at that Islington node, vs. taking the subway? Having used that route for years, my guess is not all that many. Plus the gravity of the node will be shifting to Kipling anyways.

AoD

Its been said about 500 people work in the Islington area and why 1 or 26 will continue to it like today from Kipling. One only has to look at the number of riders found on Bloor St west of the Islington terminal at the first stop.

The idea of 1 or 26 going to Islington after the move has been on the books for at least a decade. Will it happen come 2019/22 is another thing, way plans are getting change these days.

 

[Steve X]

The City of Toronto Act disallows other provides from operating transit withing Toronto except higher level governments. If you're on the 109, you can't transfer at Kipling to a 1/26 to get to Islington via Miway. That's illegal. They'll have to make the transfer in Mississauga.

A free shuttle however is legal. Does that mean they'll have to open the door at Kipling and let anyone on without verifying for a miway fares? They can't loose too much if people were to take advantage of it.

 

[Rainforest]

The City of Toronto Act disallows other provides from operating transit withing Toronto except higher level governments. If you're on the 109, you can't transfer at Kipling to a 1/26 to get to Islington via Miway. That's illegal. They'll have to make the transfer in Mississauga.

A free shuttle however is legal. Does that mean they'll have to open the door at Kipling and let anyone on without verifying for a miway fares? They can't loose too much if people were to take advantage of it.

At the Finch terminal, people transfer from one YRT or VIVA route to another all the time. I am sure this is not illegal (and if it was, it would contradict the YRT's 2 h trip policy that allows the riders to take any YRT or VIVA route within those 2 hours).

It is illegal for the outside operators to carry fare-paying riders between two points inside the Toronto border. If the trips either starts or ends outside those borders, then it is legal.

 

[Steve X]

At the Finch terminal, people transfer from one YRT or VIVA route to another all the time. I am sure this is not illegal (and if it was, it would contradict the YRT's 2 h trip policy that allows the riders to take any YRT or VIVA route within those 2 hours).

It is illegal for the outside operators to carry fare-paying riders between two points inside the Toronto border. If the trips either starts or ends outside those borders, then it is legal.

Yes. that's fine. They're going back into York Region.

The law never mention about trips starting outside of Toronto. Boarding a transit bus within Kipling to Islington could be considered local and could cut into the TTC's revenue. It doesn't matter if the person came from Mississauga. A shuttle has to be private too. One rich person can't really offer a free shuttle for random strangers with no real purpose from Finch to downtown without getting into legal trouble either.

They might need an amendment to the act to make it work. Miway also has to ensure people are transferring and not someone decided to take Miway from Kipling terminal to Islington cause the subway is down.

Here's what the law says: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/06c11

Exclusive authority of TTC
395 (1) No person other than the TTC shall establish, operate or maintain a local passenger transportation system within the City until the TTC is dissolved or the control and management over the local passenger transportation system is removed from the TTC. 2006, c. 11, Sched. A, s. 395 (1).

Exceptions
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of,

(a) rickshaws;

(b) pedicabs;

(c) railway companies incorporated under federal or provincial statutes;

(d) taxicabs;

(e) vehicles used for providing sightseeing tours;

(f) vehicles exclusively chartered to transport a group of persons for a specified trip within the City, for a group fee;

(g) buses owned and operated by or operated under a contract with a school board or private school;

(h) buses owned and operated by a corporation or organization solely for its own purposes, without charging a fee for transportation;

(i) ferries to the Toronto Islands;

(j) public buses on the Toronto Islands.

(k) Repealed: 2011, c. 9, Sched. 41, s. 2.

 

[drum118]

The transfer to get to/from Islington will take place at Kipling in miWay Terminal only. Riders will be drop off/pickup at Islington like it done today, but pickup will be on Bloor only. If TTC build the new terminal as proposed, miWay will pickup there.