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ssiguy2

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They seem to have really put a lot of thought into this and not bowed to pressure from NIMBYs to have a station no more than 2 blocks from their home. In other words they decided that this will be a true RAPID transit system and it will serve the citizens well. The only problem, as I stated before, is those going to Eglinton will find that at their transfer their pleasant rapid transit ride comes to a screetching halt.
 

gweed123

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They seem to have really put a lot of thought into this and not bowed to pressure from NIMBYs to have a station no more than 2 blocks from their home. In other words they decided that this will be a true RAPID transit system and it will serve the citizens well. The only problem, as I stated before, is those going to Eglinton will find that at their transfer their pleasant rapid transit ride comes to a screetching halt.
I don't think that the design for Eglinton West will remain the same as it was in the initial Transit City plan. I think that at some point the value of the Richview corridor will be seen, and the plan will be modified to take advantage of it, somehow.
 

sixrings

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I don't think that the design for Eglinton West will remain the same as it was in the initial Transit City plan. I think that at some point the value of the Richview corridor will be seen, and the plan will be modified to take advantage of it, somehow.
but parts of that land are sold and being constructed on...
 

goldmyth

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I don't think that the design for Eglinton West will remain the same as it was in the initial Transit City plan. I think that at some point the value of the Richview corridor will be seen, and the plan will be modified to take advantage of it, somehow.
Just like you (and everyone else) thought that there would be a south side alignment through Leslie.
 

BurlOak

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About $650m. I know there is support on the commission to do this.
$650M!!

I was thinking $150M.

The Honeydale area is ripe for redevelopement and Cloverdale is only 300m from the rail corridor. How could TTC or anyone consider this huge expenditure when the at-grade solution is so close.

If East Mall is the final destination, then the rail corridor is by far the better option.
If Mississauga (Dixie GO or beyond) is the final destination, then the rail corridor route is similar in length and I would guess that no Dundas Stations would be eliminated.

Looking at Toronto's history, it seems our subway building period coincided with construction being done to reduce costs. For the past 30 years, we seemed to have switched to doing everything more expensive (i.e. Sheppard and Spadina extension being done with TBM), and the result is next to nothing being completed.
 

drum118

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$650M!!

I was thinking $150M.

The Honeydale area is ripe for redevelopement and Cloverdale is only 300m from the rail corridor. How could TTC or anyone consider this huge expenditure when the at-grade solution is so close.

If East Mall is the final destination, then the rail corridor is by far the better option.
If Mississauga (Dixie GO or beyond) is the final destination, then the rail corridor route is similar in length and I would guess that no Dundas Stations would be eliminated.

Looking at Toronto's history, it seems our subway building period coincided with construction being done to reduce costs. For the past 30 years, we seemed to have switched to doing everything more expensive (i.e. Sheppard and Spadina extension being done with TBM), and the result is next to nothing being completed.
You have to tunnel this extension as there is no room north of the tracks to run on the surface.

You have a condo west of the station right in the path of a surface line. You would need to buy land to run on the surface as well rebuilt bridges and roads. The new underpass extension would be too low for trucks.

If you visit the areas as well walk it, you will see the issues first hand why a surface line will not work both at Cloverdale and Dixie. Overhead views are not telling the real story. I have walked the area as well photograph it and video tape it.

Also, TTC has issues with open section on their current lines and prefer to be underground regardless of the extra cost to provide free flow service.

The whole area west of Kipling Station already have master plans in place for redevelopment on the south side and waiting for that kick start.
 

Bojaxs

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Not sure if this was already posted, but an interesting read regarding an ill fated attempt to extend the BD line westward towards Mississauga.

http://www.blogto.com/city/2013/09/that_time_when_toronto_tried_to_extend_the_subway_west/

This part stood out to me.
Kipling station, despite its connections to bus lines, the airport rocket, and a GO station, isn't exactly the thriving hub it was hoped, either. Mississauga buses prefer to stop at Islington station and density around the terminus has been slow to materialize.
So I suppose if a Cloverdale station were built. Mississauga transit would still use Islington station?
 

BurlOak

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gweed123

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So I suppose if a Cloverdale station were built. Mississauga transit would still use Islington station?
I wouldn't think so. It would right off the 427 and right off Dundas, so Mississauga's 2 major BRT routes would be much better served than if they continued to use Islington.

And yes, the $145 million pricetag in 2006 stands out to me as well. For many RT projects, $145 million is nearly a rounding error.
 
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BurlOak

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$145 for a one stop extension to in 2006 sounds just about right.
There was a large price adjustment after the 2006 recession. I would think 2013 prices are closer than you think to 2006 costs. I would guess they are maybe 15% higher now.
 

nfitz

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There was a large price adjustment after the 2006 recession. I would think 2013 prices are closer than you think to 2006 costs. I would guess they are maybe 15% higher now.
15% higher than 2013 in 7 years? There was a dip after 2008/2009, but look at the MTO Tender Price Index. It was up 5% in 2006/2007, 10% in 2007/2008, and then 12% in 2008/2009, before falling for a couple of years. It was up 30% after 3 years, but then after 5 years it was still up a total of 14%.

I don't see what it's done in the last 2 years though ... but your suggesting it's been frozen? Seems unlikely for something that has averaged over 3% for the last 19 years (was about 4.5% over 17 years before the recession).

4-5% a year is a good rule of thumb for the long-term.
 

Bamako

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You have to tunnel this extension as there is no room north of the tracks to run on the surface.

You have a condo west of the station right in the path of a surface line. You would need to buy land to run on the surface as well rebuilt bridges and roads. The new underpass extension would be too low for trucks.

If you visit the areas as well walk it, you will see the issues first hand why a surface line will not work both at Cloverdale and Dixie. Overhead views are not telling the real story. I have walked the area as well photograph it and video tape it.

Also, TTC has issues with open section on their current lines and prefer to be underground regardless of the extra cost to provide free flow service.

The whole area west of Kipling Station already have master plans in place for redevelopment on the south side and waiting for that kick start.
I don't doubt your conclusions, but surely there are options? Since Obico is now abandoned, can't the CP Row be slightly realigned to give room for the TTC tracks? Moving the GO stop to East Mall/Cloverdale/427 would also free up some room, and the platform is roughly the subway ROW wide.

There are only two overpasses: Shorncliffe and East Mall - the former of which can be regraded (and backroads provided on the honeydale site if Shorncliffe exits become untenable), and the latter is already wide enough since there is an abandoned spur to one of the warehouses there.
 

ssiguy2

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It's for reasons like this, as well as transportation planning being done by politicians, that Toronto subway expansion has grown at a truly blistering 5 km per decade over the last 30 years. Of course elevation which has become the norm in suburban areas throughout the world is considered heresy in Toronto will make sure this stellar expansion rate continue for decades to come.
 

Marko

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I have concerns about the width of the roadway where it curves from Rathburn to the eastbound route along the 403.

In straight runs, buses don't need any more than a regular lane width but going around a curve, their length requires a slightly wider lane. Add in the fact that it's a somewhat blind curve and it's probably best to create a 3m or so painted median between the 2 opposing lanes, since buses hedge away from the outside curb in curves.

Call me paranoid, but I think they're asking for trouble and risking a head-on crash if opposing buses drift even a little bit towards the middle.
 

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