Toronto Mirvish Village (Honest Ed's Redevelopment) | 85.04m | 26s | Westbank | Henriquez Partners

[AlvinofDiaspar]

For a few reasons. First of all because many of them contribute to our country and economy and we should avoid measures that would dissuade them from coming. Even if they don't stay forever, they are valuable while they are here. It also strikes me as unfair since these people are not speculators but are living in the units while they work or study here.

It's not a matter of fairness - it's a matter of taxation on the basis of citizenship. Besides, the inability to moderate out of control prices and the negative impact from any subsequent "pop" of the bubble is a greater overriding threat. It is our banking system, our mortage holders etc that will be negatively affected.

AoD

 

[Waterloo_Guy]

It's not a matter of fairness - it's a matter of taxation on the basis of citizenship.

AoD

That's not how taxation works in Canada. Taxation is not tied to citizenship (with a few exceptions). Permanent residents pay tax too, and even people on visas and tourists pay some tax.

 

[narduch]

For a few reasons. First of all because many of them contribute to our country and economy and we should avoid measures that would dissuade them from coming. Even if they don't stay forever, they are valuable while they are here. It also strikes me as unfair since these people are not speculators but are living in the units while they work or study here.

Edit: This is the last I'll say on the subject since I doubt I will persuade anyone anyway. But I think Wynne appealed to the worst part of our nature. The impact of foreign buyers is widely believed to be minimal; the real reason for this policy is obvious, and I suspect it will win her votes.

I think you have mis-read the post you are quoting.

This new tax wouldn't affect foreigners planning to plant roots in Canada. Even those working here temporarily.

I've actually heard the opposite on foreign buyers. That it's way worse then we are being told, particularly in condos.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

That's not how taxation works in Canada. Taxation is not tied to citizenship (with a few exceptions). Permanent residents pay tax too, and even people on visas and tourists pay some tax.

Taxation works however our government want it to work. Are you telling me that somehow what BC implemented is "not how it works" and that somehow tying taxation to citizenship is unconstitutional?

AoD

 

[Waterloo_Guy]

This new tax wouldn't affect foreigners planning to plant roots in Canada. Even those working here temporarily.

Not everyone plans to stay forever, but it's still detrimental to target them with this tax. And even those who plan to stay must pay it up front and get a rebate.

 

[amnesiajune]

This new tax wouldn't affect foreigners planning to plant roots in Canada. Even those working here temporarily.

Yes, and that's a good thing. The tax in BC, on the other hand, does discriminate against people living on any non-permanent visa, including people with indefinite visas.

I've actually heard the opposite on foreign buyers. That it's way worse then we are being told, particularly in condos.

I think people have a tendency to conflate "Asian and unassimilated" with "foreign". The reality is that anyone spending more than three months here has some resident status here - either as a student, worker, or investor. None of them will be paying the tax - this is more of a tax on foreign investors than foreign buyers.

 

[Waterloo_Guy]

Taxation works however our government want it to work. Are you telling me that somehow what BC implemented is "not how it works"?

AoD

Perhaps I misread your intention. I thought you were saying that taxation is naturally tied to citizenship. I apologize for the confusion.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Perhaps I misread your intention. I thought you were saying that taxation is naturally tied to citizenship. I apologize for the confusion.

Not entirely - I am not suggesting that taxation is tied to citizenship - but I am saying that the government is at liberty to decide how to tax depending on one's citizenship status.

AoD

 

[Tuscani01]

Before this thread gets even more O.T with speculation, the answer to the question of what will happen with this development was already answered just 1 page before the question was asked:

Westbank have no intention of switching this site to condos. They are moving ahead with the original rental plan despite potential policy changes.

It's business as usual. There will still be demand for rentals, and as long as there is still demand, there will still be profit to be made. Developers would be stupid to back out now, especially since purchasing is becoming less of an option for more people. At the end of the day, most rental providers are already being fair with rent increases, with increases falling within rent control guidelines which don't even apply to them. New guidelines will not have an effect on these companies.

If in the process these rules end up weeding out the companies who are more driven by greed, then that should be considered a good thing.

 

[amnesiajune]

The other thing, frankly... Westbank knows that this has very little impact on their development, which will be mainly filled with students and young professionals, who move around more often and thus don't limit rent for too long. The developments that are in trouble are the ones for families that want to stay in one rental unit for 5, 10, 15, 20 years, maybe even longer than that. I'm not sure how the provincial government is going to be able to make up for that.

 

[ponyboy]

projectend and tuscani -- I hope you are correct that this project will not change substantially, because it is a great development in my opinion, and we really need more rental housing in the Annex. We also need more rentals for people starting to have kids. Neighbourhoods like the Annex and Seaton Village have schools that are undercapacity, a looming problem in many affluent areas of Toronto dominated by single family homes with smaller families than yesteryear. If politicians were seeing the whole picture, they might realize the best way to populate those schools with kids is with more 2 and 3 bedroom rentals because most young couples can't buy houses in these hoods, and condos are scarce. Maybe Wynne and company had conversations with developers, and they were appeased by the development charge givebacks in exchange for rental controls, but people like Brad Lamb has said the he will be canceling 8 rental projects in the pipeline because of these changes.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Lamb loves to speak big. He's not really a rental developer either. I would be surprised if he has 8 rental buildings up his sleeves.

 

[interchange42]

Lamb sounded like a baby when he declared all his projects cancelled yesterday. On CP24 he declared "I'm planning 9 projects in Ontario, 1 in Ottawa, and 8 in Toronto, and they're all cancelled because of this." He had been talking about rental just previous to that, but he didn't actually say rental in that sentence, and based on what we know of his projects, I think those 9 projects represent all his projects in Ontario, not just rentals. (He hasn't built any rentals yet, BTW.) Anyway, like I said, he sounded like a ridiculous little kid whose candy was just taken away. I had some respect for him as a salesman and developer until yesterday—and the guy does have an imposing presence, intimidating even—but following that petulant little tantrum, that's all gone.

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[narduch]

That kind of reaction leads me to believe that the foreign investor is actually more prevalent then TREB wants us to believe.

I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[Urban-Affair]

That kind of reaction leads me to believe that the foreign investor is actually more prevalent then TREB wants us to believe.

I guess we will have to wait and see.

I think you're 100% right. There are reasons why certain parties would want that metric to be under reported.

Lamb sounded like a baby when he declared all his projects cancelled yesterday. On CP24 he declared "I'm planning 9 projects in Ontario, 1 in Ottawa, and 8 in Toronto, and they're all cancelled because of this." He had been talking about rental just previous to that, but he didn't actually say rental in that sentence, and based on what we know of his projects, I think those 9 projects represent all his projects in Ontario, not just rentals. (He hasn't built any rentals yet, BTW.) Anyway, like I said, he sounded like a ridiculous little kid whose candy was just taken away. I had some respect for him as a salesman and developer until yesterday—and the guy does have an imposing presence, intimidating even—but following that petulant little tantrum, that's all gone.

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He is a baby, he often has mini tantrums whenever he doesn't get his way, but maybe I'm a bit biased; he stepped out in front of my car once crossing on a red. I stopped, he didn't even blink, just kept walking across like he was entitled to cross on reds and everyone should just wait for his holiness. I wasn't too impressed with him to say the least.