Toronto Lower Don Lands Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

[gei]

I'd bet on '95 -- the Jays tied for last in MLB that year.

Despite the fact that IMO the GTA sports media fawns over the Jays disproportionately to the team's actual popularity, the Jays are in the same position as the Argos and the Raptors -- fighting for scraps after the Leafs leave the table.

This is a gross misconception that I always hear over and over again.

Fact of the matter is, most people I know who are Raptors fans don't watch hockey at all. The Jays/Raptors don't attract 'scraps', they have their own unique and diverse fanbase.

Take myself for example, I follow the Raptors and Jays religiously, but could care less about the Leafs. Most of my friends are the exact same way. And this trend seems to be increasing...

 

[TOareaFan]

This is a gross misconception that I always hear over and over again.

Fact of the matter is, most people I know who are Raptors fans don't watch hockey at all. The Jays/Raptors don't attract 'scraps', they have their own unique and diverse fanbase.

Take myself for example, I follow the Raptors and Jays religiously, but could care less about the Leafs. Most of my friends are the exact same way. And this trend seems to be increasing...

Here are your trends for sports team attendance in Toronto

One going up slightly and two going down!

 

[GenerationW]

This is a gross misconception that I always hear over and over again.

Fact of the matter is, most people I know who are Raptors fans don't watch hockey at all. The Jays/Raptors don't attract 'scraps', they have their own unique and diverse fanbase.

Take myself for example, I follow the Raptors and Jays religiously, but could care less about the Leafs. Most of my friends are the exact same way. And this trend seems to be increasing...

If "myself " is the example, very few people I know follow the Raptors, and almost everyone who followed the Jays during the Blue Jays mania era could now care less about them. So my trend can beat up your trend.

And then there's the team you omitted (the Argos), which does comparable if not better TV numbers than the Jays, and massively better than the Raptors. Where are they on your trend-o-meter?

But the fact remains, the Leafs are the king of all GTA pro teams. Everyone else is fighting for second.

 

[Automation Gallery]

the Leafs are the king of all GTA pro teams.

Thats unfortunate, for a organization thats given us very little in the last 40 years.

 

[Jonny5]

I'll slag off the team as much as the next fan, but I have had countless fun nights at games and watching games. From my point of view, they have given me good value for my money, despite no cups and few conference wins. I've cheered, jeered and cried. Made friends and had fun thanks to a unique experience. For a team that allegedly gives us nothing, you would be hard pressed to find a kid at Sick Kids whose face doesn't light up from their frequent visits. In conjunction with MLSE and the PA they are out on the charity and benefit circuit constantly and the kids love them. It's easy to bash millionaire frat boys but that team gives a lot to this city just by going out on the ice and we give them way more shit than the Blue Jays or the Raptors. Remember what happend when someone tried to take pic of their friends and Turkoglu thought he might be in it?

 

[JMSRead]

It's like you're borderline trolling here.

OK..

"The team that I compared them to earlier in the thread (the Brewers) are averaging 33,469 and are one of the 11 teams already through the million mark in attendance (Jays are at 571k after one less home game)."

The Brewers made a huge push last offseason acquriing Shawn Marcum and Zack Greinke and have a legitimate playoff team this year. The also made the playoffs a couple of years ago, and have generally been in the 'mix' the last few years.

Once again..... the Blue Jays have not been in a playoff race for nearly 20 seasons. They traded or lost their stars after 2009 and have been rebuilding with young players. They have a VERY slim chance of making a playoff run this season. Yes, they are only a few out of the wildcard - but it is JUNE.

There is a huge difference between the expectation and state of the Brewers and Blue Jays. I don't mean this to be insulting, but if you dont' see that, then I suspect you don't follow the game.

Once again - VERY few teams would draw better than the Jays had they not been in a playoff race the last 18 years. Maybe Yanks, BoSox, Dodgers. As a comparison - look at the Orioles attendance. 'Great' baseball town, has been drawing about the same as Toronto. Both are haven't been in a race for about the same amount of time.

 

[JMSRead]

Nobody is saying Toronto is an amazing baseball town, and nobody is saying Jays support is close to the Leafs. Nobody.

But the Jays attendance is about where you'd expect a team that hasn't had a playoff race in a two decades to be. The TV and radio ratings are excellent. It's a fine baseball town, potentially excellent.

Judge them when they are contending. And no, what they're doing now isn't contending.

"ake myself for example, I follow the Raptors and Jays religiously, but could care less about the Leafs. Most of my friends are the exact same way. And this trend seems to be increasing..."

Agree.

 

[gei]

Here are your trends for sports team attendance in Toronto

View attachment 7453


One going up slightly and two going down!

seriously? yes that must certainly be the trend then. nothing to do with the fact the teams sucked during those years. i'm sure if the jays/raptors made the playoffs next year that downward trend would still continue

(rolling eyes)

 

[TOareaFan]

seriously? yes that must certainly be the trend then. nothing to do with the fact the teams sucked during those years. i'm sure if the jays/raptors made the playoffs next year that downward trend would still continue

(rolling eyes)

That was posted in response to someone suggesting there was a trend towards supporting Jays/Raptors as opposed to Leafs. Since all three have missed the playoffs for the entire period covered and since the only one whose attendance increased during that time was the Leafs I think it serves quite well to dispute that theory ( it had no other purpose).

There are, what, 14 teams in baseball with longer world series droughts than the Jays. I think number of those that are ahead of the Jays in attendance is also a double digit number!

For those who had nothing better to do than guess my age.....you could win some of these silly contests if you bothered to read threads in their entirety.....there were some unintentional hints (ie. If I were born in, either 1994 or 1995 my age would have been negative something the night the Jays set the major league attendance record and gave me that nifty little souvenir referred to earlier).

That said, I am convinced. Enough people have told me that this is a fine baseball town and there is no need to be concerned! Once all those Red Sox fans move out of the Dome after today's game you can all reclaim your seats!

Over and out!

 

[JMSRead]

Yup. Lots of Red Sox fans here this weekend. Nobody denying that. And attendance is low right now. Nobody denying that.

Once again - no playoff races in nearly 20 years. The issue is not world series droughts. It's playoff races. That's what drives people to the park in droves in August/September. That's what creates buzz among casual sports fans. That's what's been missing.

The only other teams similar to that really the Expos/Nationals, Royals, Pirates and Orioles. As you find they more or less average about the same as Toronto.

If Toronto becomes like Tampa Bay or Florida - averaging 20K in seasons right after making the playoffs - then yeah, bad baseball town. But drawing poorly after 20 years of no real hope of playoffs? Frankly, it's understandable.

 

[gei]

If Toronto becomes like Tampa Bay or Florida - averaging 20K in seasons right after making the playoffs - then yeah, bad baseball town. But drawing poorly after 20 years of no real hope of playoffs? Frankly, it's understandable.

yup... they actually had to struggle to fill their stadiums even DURING the playoffs.

you can be sure as hell people would be lined up across the city for tickets if the jays ever made it there. most real baseball fans realize toronto is a great baseball city and the dome will be filled up once we start actually competing for a spot. Rogers knows this too... which is why no one is particularly concerned about bad attendance at the moment.

 

[Tulse]

Great baseball towns fill the seats even when the team is out of contention. Toronto is a great hockey town -- it is at best an indifferent baseball town.

 

[GenerationW]

yup... they actually had to struggle to fill their stadiums even DURING the playoffs.

you can be sure as hell people would be lined up across the city for tickets if the jays ever made it there. most real baseball fans realize toronto is a great baseball city and the dome will be filled up once we start actually competing for a spot. Rogers knows this too... which is why no one is particularly concerned about bad attendance at the moment.

Now for reality: The main reason why the Jays (and you can throw the Argos and Raptors in that pile) are not concerned about attendance issues is because the team has a stable and wealthy owner.

And it's laughable to suggest that people would be lined up across the city to buy Jays playoff tickets when one considers (Ted) Rogers said almost exactly the same thing about the Bills in Toronto series.

 

[johnwood]

Great baseball towns fill the seats even when the team is out of contention. Toronto is a great hockey town -- it is at best an indifferent baseball town.

Not true, even the Yankees, supposedly the best best market in baseball has trouble filling seats and they make the playoffs every year. There was also times in the past they had trouble getting people in the stands when they weren't winning, so there isn't any safe team in the MLB.

 

[TOareaFan]

Now for reality: The main reason why the Jays (and you can throw the Argos and Raptors in that pile) are not concerned about attendance issues is because the team has a stable and wealthy owner.

And it's laughable to suggest that people would be lined up across the city to buy Jays playoff tickets when one considers (Ted) Rogers said almost exactly the same thing about the Bills in Toronto series.

Cost has a lot to do with that though. A permanent NFL tenant would be free(r) to set their prices based on the year long economics of owning/running an NFL team. As it is, they negotiated a price that they were paying to the Bills to move the series of games and had to build their pricing model off of that. All that the Bill's in Toronto games has shown is that there is a limit to how much more a Toronto NFL game can charge as compared with a Buffalo game.....we don't know what that limit is but we know the original Rogers' pricing was beyond it.

As for Toronto being a great hockey town....it is a great Leaf town that is for sure. The owners of the Marlies, Majors and Battalion (and to a lesser extent the Generals) might argue that it is not a great hockey town.