Toronto Lower Don Lands Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

It's really interesting that everyone on here thinks we not only need to make transit, cycling and walking better/cheaper/more accessible, but that we must also DISCOURAGE driving and make driving more MISERABLE.

I would think you can have great transit, great cycling infrastructure AND great driving roads for cars. But that's not the consensus on Urban Toronto at all. It's that one comes at the EXPENSE of the other.

We cannot have it all, we must take away from the car infrastructure to give to the transit and cycling. Now people will use slightly softer words like 'prioritize' but it really does seem like a zero-sum game to everyone on here.

We must make driving as horrible as possible (stuck in a 3 hour traffic jam? good!!) in order to make cycling and transit better.

I don't subscribe to that ration at all. And I shudder when people are trying to actively think up schemes to make life miserable for drivers. It's just weird.
 
hawc said:
Actually, that's EXACTLY what was just said...

"It is actually really fast and easy to drive and park around most parts of downtown Toronto, if you're a little smart about timing. It should be a lot harder and more expensive!"​


Evandyk is saying... it's really easy to drive and park downtown, it should be harder and more expensive.

The thing is if you make driving/parking more expensive you penalize only the middle and lower class. You have zero effect on the rich.
Click to expand...

Lets flip this shall we?

Who do we make it harder on when we increase transit fares and reduce service?

Is that the rich? Hmmm?

What about when we fail to provide enough shelter beds for the homeless, or raise recreation user fees?

How about when we choose not to cover the cost of prescription drugs or dental care? That'll show those rich people!

****

As it turns out, with the possible exception of certain luxury goods (yachts, private jets, 4-season cottages with lakefront, Lambos......) etc. Raising the cost of any good or service will most affect those with the least ability to pay.

By that logic, we ought to abolish sales tax on most items, too bad, about having to shut all the hospitals and schools down after, right?

Clearly, as a society, we need to tax; there are broadly three types of taxation (over simplification) Taxes on Income, Taxes on wealth/capital, Taxes on sales (includes fees for service).

All of these can be applied in various ways; but so as not to get too far into the weeds..........on the latter, after some level of general sales tax, the preferred idea is generally to charge more for those goods or services deemed less desirable from a social perspective. Those things that pollute, that promote ill-health, that promote wastefulness etc.

In that context, surely it makes sense to penalize parking/driving in an area where there is a finite amount of space available for that activity and where, realistically, you can't provide any more. Further, if you could, you would choose not too, because widening the DVP over the River is a ghastly idea, because making the Gardiner 12-lanes would take a bad idea and make it worse at enormous cost.

So then, the only question is how should we discourage driving; and how should we spend the proceeds from any taxes or fees?

Personally, I prefer pay-for-use over fixed fees like Vehicle Registration Taxes. I think they better serve to discourage the problematic behavior, while not unduly penalizing households who may feel they need access to one car, even if they don't need to drive it every day.

Though, I might not object to a tax at point-of-sale, for cars that are polluting.

But if you prefer something different to parking taxes and tolls, by all means suggest it.
 
I get that my response is OT for this thread, as have the last page plus of posts..............

I'm all for keeping this a bit more on topic.

That said, you embedded your response to my post inside the quote............you should fix that, @DSC
 
This portion of road beside the yellow bridge, I am curious how much of this will they remove, so that the lake does not enter into that area to the right.
Are they using walls of some kind, so that when they are ready they would lift the walls and let the water in?

1674052081361.png
 
hawc said:
It's really interesting that everyone on here thinks we not only need to make transit, cycling and walking better/cheaper/more accessible, but that we must also DISCOURAGE driving and make driving more MISERABLE.
Click to expand...
You say that as if it where a bad thing...
 
Dinamo5 said:
This portion of road beside the yellow bridge, I am curious how much of this will they remove, so that the lake does not enter into that area to the right.
Are they using walls of some kind, so that when they are ready they would lift the walls and let the water in?

View attachment 451201
Click to expand...
I posted this in September:

The new equipment being set up at the Yellow Bridge belongs to Keller - I checked their website and they have a great write up on what they are doing and have done at the new Don mouth. https://www.keller.com/news/protecting-torontos-port-lands or a longer article at https://www.pilingcanada.ca/torontos-port-lands/
 
I'm fairly well off, and do have a car, but yes, I think we should do things like congestion charges and tolling the Gardiner/DVP. Ultimately that's the way to make the streets work for the people who value them the most, which does include rich people, but also includes retail stores, restaurants, delivery people, contractors, etc.
 
Anyone have any ideas as to when Cherry is going to re-open north of Lake Shore? It closed last March for a month, then it was set to reopen in the fall, and now we have no ETA despite the work appearing to be done.
 
leslievillecyclist said:
Anyone have any ideas as to when Cherry is going to re-open north of Lake Shore? It closed last March for a month, then it was set to reopen in the fall, and now we have no ETA despite the work appearing to be done.
Click to expand...
Last fall I was told that it would remain closed until the new alignment of Cherry Street opens south of the rail berm and across the new bridge. WT seems to be planning this for May/June 2023.
 
I'm not sure and am not going to look back at 278 pages, but if there are any photos of the concrete silos on Cherry near Lake Shore, I think some of their work is posted there.
 
This is really random, but can anyone speculate to when we might get a masterplan/development proponent for this site? Sometime in 2024? I am really anxious about what kind of development we will get here. We already have some kind of masterplan for the Portlands but it seems outdated given Tory's new housing incentive.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top