Toronto Leslie Barns | ?m | ?s | TTC | SAI

Tuscani01 said:
That would assume that every single streetcar is arriving there at the exact same time, which isn't the case.
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When multiple streetcar lines go out of service at night, isn't that the time when many will be arriving at or around the same time?
 
pstogios said:
When multiple streetcar lines go out of service at night, isn't that the time when many will be arriving at or around the same time?
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Yes, but it's after rush hour, and southbound on Leslie. Most of the autos are going northbound at that time.
 
As for Burger King going out of business, they weren't busy before the construction in the first place and they did have it rough during the construction as it was hard to get to just walking, let alone trying to drive to it. I had that hard try find entrance walking there last year as well the year before.

Like St Clair, a number of places on Queen St were living on a thread and only a mater of time before they close their doors. Being a low density area, not much foot traffic on the street.

It will be about 20+ years before the Commissioner line gets built and when it does, it will be a relief valve for Queen St, where TTC will be able to get the cars to/from the barn faster.
 
drum118 said:
It will be about 20+ years before the Commissioner line gets built and when it does, it will be a relief valve for Queen St, where TTC will be able to get the cars to/from the barn faster.
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In the meantime, is there enough current capacity for streetcars arrive to the barns at the end of service day without jamming up?
 
Has anything been decided (irrevocably) about the fate of the Russell and Roncesvalles properties after the Flexity deliveries are complete? If the TTC extends the life of a number of CLRV's, they will have to be housed somewhere? Russell would certainly be available as an overflow storage site.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
Has anything been decided (irrevocably) about the fate of the Russell and Roncesvalles properties after the Flexity deliveries are complete? If the TTC extends the life of a number of CLRV's, they will have to be housed somewhere? Russell would certainly be available as an overflow storage site.
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Yes. Both are staying - they are necessary to fit the fleet.

Currently we have 195 CLRVs and 52 ALRVs. The 52 ALRVs are equivalent in length to 78 CLRVs. So the old fleet is equivalent to 273 CLRVs - 274 if you include the CLRV (4063) that was scrapped in 2009.

The new fleet is 204 Flexities. The new Leslie yard only fits 100. So 104 will have to be stored at Russell and Roncesvalles. Those 104 are equivalent in length to 208 CLRVs.

So in terms of length, Russell and Roncesvalles are only going from 273 to 208 vehicles. Both will still be required.

TTC has stated that with the 3 yards, they have space to fit in 60 more Flexity vehicles (which they are trying to get funding to buy). This would raise the equivalent length stored at Russell and Roncesvalles to 328 vehicles from the 273 today.

Russell and Roncesvalles are likely going to be fuller than ever in the 2020s! There will be no room for any life-extended CLRVs by then - other perhaps for a couple of heritage units, similar to the 2 old PCCs (4500 and 4549); and the Peter Witt (2766).
 
nfitz said:
TTC has stated that with the 3 yards, they have space to fit in 60 more Flexity vehicles (which they are trying to get funding to buy). This would raise the equivalent length stored at Russell and Roncesvalles to 328 vehicles from the 273 today.

Russell and Roncesvalles are likely going to be fuller than ever in the 2020s!
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When St. Clair closed in the spring of 1978, there were about 360+ PCC cars in service. PCCs are slightly shorter than CLRVs, but not enough to make a difference on a track with 10 cars stored, so Russell and Roncesvalles should be able to hold 328 equivalent-length cars if they could carry 360+ cars in 1978 (allowing for several to be in the shops at any time as well). The only issue would be where a track can hold a certain number of CLRVs today, but could only hold a couple of Flexity cars and have space left over equivalent to one CLRV. Basically we're assuming that the track usage of Flexity cars would be as efficient as having CLRVs fill the tracks, which may not be the case on every track.
 
AlbertHWagstaff said:
Basically we're assuming that the track usage of Flexity cars would be as efficient as having CLRVs fill the tracks, which may not be the case on every track.
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I believe there was a TTC report a few years ago, that noted there'd be some loss of efficiency with the longer cars - where a track that could only hold 9 CLRVs might now be able to only hold 4 Flexity's. However 328 vs 360+ (thanks for that!) seems to show that the 60 will squeeze in.
 
AlbertHWagstaff said:
When St. Clair closed in the spring of 1978, there were about 360+ PCC cars in service. PCCs are slightly shorter than CLRVs, but not enough to make a difference on a track with 10 cars stored, so Russell and Roncesvalles should be able to hold 328 equivalent-length cars if they could carry 360+ cars in 1978 (allowing for several to be in the shops at any time as well). The only issue would be where a track can hold a certain number of CLRVs today, but could only hold a couple of Flexity cars and have space left over equivalent to one CLRV. Basically we're assuming that the track usage of Flexity cars would be as efficient as having CLRVs fill the tracks, which may not be the case on every track.
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There has been some decrease in the capacity of the yards since 1978, however. It's only a couple of cars worth at Russell, but Roncesvalles has lost two full yard tracks to allow for the construction of an additional maintenance bay.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
The Leslie Street carbarns are scheduled to be ready by summer (September?) of 2015. There is a capacity for 100 new streetcars.

A new streetcar is about 30 m in length. In comparison, a regular length bus is about 12 m in length, while an articulated bus is about 18 m.

I am guessing that Toronto will not have 100 new streetcars on hand or available by the time the Leslie Street carbarns open for use. So, in the meantime, while we wait (and wait, and wait) there would be room available to house buses, until a new bus garage is built (or at least paved) or the remaining new streetcars arrive and displace the buses.

The remaining new streetcars would be distributed between Roncesvalles and Russell.
 
W. K. Lis said:
A new streetcar is about 30 m in length. In comparison, a regular length bus is about 12 m in length, while an articulated bus is about 18 m.

I am guessing that Toronto will not have 100 new streetcars on hand or available by the time the Leslie Street carbarns open for use. So, in the meantime, while we wait (and wait, and wait) there would be room available to house buses, until a new bus garage is built (or at least paved) or the remaining new streetcars arrive and displace the buses.
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There is one major problem with this plan. The series of poles along the tracks. while streetcars are easily guided through this maze on their rails and (in the case of the new/alrvs) the ability to bend, i foresee issues of trying to get a bus through this maze of poles and navigating the tight purpose built curvatures in the yard.

seems like a collision is waiting to happen under this scenario.
 
W. K. Lis said:
The Leslie Street carbarns are scheduled to be ready by summer (September?) of 2015. There is a capacity for 100 new streetcars.

A new streetcar is about 30 m in length. In comparison, a regular length bus is about 12 m in length, while an articulated bus is about 18 m.

I am guessing that Toronto will not have 100 new streetcars on hand or available by the time the Leslie Street carbarns open for use. So, in the meantime, while we wait (and wait, and wait) there would be room available to house buses, until a new bus garage is built (or at least paved) or the remaining new streetcars arrive and displace the buses.

The remaining new streetcars would be distributed between Roncesvalles and Russell.
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Apart from the pole problem noted above by mrxbombastic, the existing streetcar barns need work to allow them to service the new streetcars so I think they will not be 100% available anyway.
 
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