Toronto King East Centre | 140m | 39s | First Gulf | WZMH

[beaconer]

I'm going to go with the opposite. People gripe about Sobey's prices, but the urban market store with a focus on prepared foods is a good fit for all the condos in the area.

I'm biased, though, because I love the Front/Princess Sobey's.

I enjoy the Front Street Sobeys as well and as I said I hope both can stick around, but when I go there and from what I see, a large part of their customer base is the subsidized housing patrons (Esplanade, etc). I think they will lose pretty much all of them, because NO FRILLS is so much cheaper that Sobeys will not be able to compete on a large portion of the product base. Which leaves Sobeys only with specialty items.

I personally find Sobeys prepared foods nothing special. Their sushi is horrid, their roasted chicken is easily found elsewhere, and their deli sandwhich counter is not anything special either. The only time I use it is late night, open 24 hour time, and at that time most of their prepared foods are left overs. Further, I don't see why No Frills will not have their own prepared foods.


In addition to the above:

-the store is never really really busy, say like Metro on a Monday evening.
-I don't think its managed very well (prices are always off, for example)
-Stock is always low (they have very little storage space)
-they don't get too much 'drive up' traffic (just those that stand their cars in front of the store) because their parking lot is not connected to the entrance
-lastly, I don't think the intersection/area can support two grocery stores (in addition to the Rabba), despite the fact they cater to different demographics. The bell curve people in the middle will choose the cheaper prices, imho.

I am not a big fan of the No Frills parking lot either, but I can totally see this location being extremely convenient for drivers going to the east on their way home to DVP or the further east side, which will further increase their business.

 

[Homer]

Is a Princess Street entrance for No Frillls really confirmed? The doors on Princess look more to be a fire exit or emergency exit.

The rendering and construction to me clearly shows the Main Entrance fronting onto the parking lot on Front St E.

Yes NoFrills will be constructing the entrance on Princess as part of their interior work.

 

[Edward Skira]

I think its Rabba that's going to suffer the most. From being the only joint in the area to becoming number three in a matter of years. They better hope more people smoke because that's the only advantage that I see them having.

 

[androiduk]

^ I was thinking the same thing about the Rabba near Yonge & Bloor. I used to go there nearly every day, now I go in about once a week. I think they might go the way of Hasty Market.

 

[DSC]

I think its Rabba that's going to suffer the most. From being the only joint in the area to becoming number three in a matter of years. They better hope more people smoke because that's the only advantage that I see them having.

I agree, I live almost equidistant to Metro and Sobeys and find I shop most at Metro as they have the best selection, Sobeys is good for some things and their vegetables are often FAR better than Metro's but one seldom sees people buying the large orders so common at Metro. Rabba is used for cigarettes (not by me!), milk and staples and I agree they may find it hard to survive. No Frills is probably not going to be my first choice but I bet you will see me there too.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Last bastion? That metaphor doesn't really make sense since the battle to urbanize downtown and eliminate parking lots has been going very well. If anyone is down to their last bastion, it would be people who think surface parking is a good way to use up downtown land.

Is UT becoming an irony-free zone?

All I was saying was that a parking lot that already exists in front of a new grocery store shouldn't be considered a poor use of space. Sure, it'd be better if they threw up a 40-story condo with four levels of underground parking. But, given the budget (probably enough to repave, but maybe only enough to repaint the lines) I expect they're not going to be able to stretch it.

 

[egotrippin]

>> Porsche presented the building to the corner of Front and Parliament and paved over the old TTC bus turning area for the parking lot, which made a lot of sense given the site. There's nowhere near enough space to have a building on Parliament and a parking lot to the west behind Staples. And, the Mini dealer on King West has moved over to Eastern beside the BMW site (beautiful new building!) so they would have room for their cars. With few exceptions, folks want to look at a lot of cars when they go shopping for cars.



Because the parking lot is small, and already in place, and it will also act as the loading dock. Your comment wasn't that it wasn't 'enjoyable', but rather that it was dangerous. Which seems a little over the top, no?



Again, they're taking the back of a disused building, making it functional, filling it with retail. There will be signage, people, movement where there was none. It will be a huge improvement -- but because it will repurpose an existing parking lot, you're filled with despair! C'mon, it's going to be a great improvement!

Your points are agreeable, but I'm not entirely convinced. Especially since it's a No Frills, it's hard to get excited. I'm also not really concerned about danger, as parking lots are relatively low speed environments; the lack of enjoyment mostly refers to the cold wintry months. There's underground parking here as well, I'm not sure what the arrangements are, but I'd like to know if there's a reason it couldn't be utilized.

Urbandreamer brings up good points about an urban dealership, for a company like Porsche, I guess I expected more than a remake of their lacklustre building with nothing more than parking out front. In its construction thread I mentioned that it'd have been nice to incorporate a small restaurant/cafe into this corner, operated for locals and people waiting for their cars. And yes, you're right, Mini did move. At least there now location is a more appropriate area for a dealership with surface parking, but I feel that King and Parliament deserves more. It's in the middle of a rapidly developing area, with lots of new residents. Anyway, time will tell. There are still a lot of terrible blocks in this area (Staples, many parking lots), which will hopefully become developed and mask the few mediocre recent developments.

Sorry, this thread is for the Sun redevelopment though, so I'll stop complaining about Porsche (in here, anyways).

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

They are car dealerships in cities around the world where the dealership occupies the ground floor retail space of building and there is no parking lot visible from a main street. I've seen it with mainstream brands like Toyota and Hyundai, to say nothing of an elite brand like Porsche.

The area has so much potential and surface parking lots are never go far in making for a great urban area. To think so is not an expression of some ferry tale war on cars; parking can always be implemented by integrating it into another building or below a public space. Such projects are more functional for a neighbourhood.

OK, OK, last reply and then I give up: 1. When they build a new Mercedes showroom underneath a huge building on Manhattan (e.g. 11th & 53rd or so), it's because they're already building the building, and Mercedes leases the ground floor. For this Porsche dealership, it was exactly the opposite. They were given the land in a 'swap' and built a small building because they sell cars and are not a real estate developer. 2. I, too, think that had they started with a greenfield location, it would have been better to build the No Frills with underground parking. However, what they have is a parking lot, and what they need, among other things, is a parking lot. So, leaving it as a parking lot... seems to make sense.

 

[androiduk]

There is underground parking on this site isn't there? The entrance is on the western end of the surface lot.

 

[inside_man]

I wonder what will happen to Sobey's now. They have their cheaper version at Regent park named Freshco. I think Sobey's is in trouble since they are paying hefty lease but corner store Rabba will still survive because of cigrettes
( Plus people still go there for basic/necesarry things). More the merrier !!

 

[beaconer]

I think its Rabba that's going to suffer the most. From being the only joint in the area to becoming number three in a matter of years. They better hope more people smoke because that's the only advantage that I see them having.

I can see the logic behind that, but for some reason I think Rabba will be fine, partially for the reason you mention, smokers, but also because of its location.

Its amazing how much of a difference a block can make in a downtown urban setting. There isn't really any practical pedestrain traffic at Front and Princess, its not a major interesection.

Also, I see Rabba as more a glorfied variety store than a real all out grocery store, the difference being that the real all out grocery stores need to maintain a large volume of customers to cover their higher overhead costs (lease, staff, stock,utlities, etc) while Rabbas numbers are much more modest.

Rabba would only need to satisfy those smokers, snackers, customers who buy sale items from their flyers (ie. me) to survive.

Time will tell, and again, I hope they can all co-exist.

 

[inside_man]

I can see the logic behind that, but for some reason I think Rabba will be fine, partially for the reason you mention, smokers, but also because of its location.

Its amazing how much of a difference a block can make in a downtown urban setting. There isn't really any practical pedestrain traffic at Front and Princess, its not a major interesection.

Also, I see Rabba as more a glorfied variety store than a real all out grocery store, the difference being that the real all out grocery stores need to maintain a large volume of customers to cover their higher overhead costs (lease, staff, stock,utlities, etc) while Rabbas numbers are much more modest.

Rabba would only need to satisfy those smokers, snackers, customers who buy sale items from their flyers (ie. me) to survive.

Time will tell, and again, I hope they can all co-exist.

Yes, That's true. Rabba doesn't fall into a major grocery store league in the first place. It's more like a convenient store. I am pretty sure people who don't go to Rabba for major groceries, end up spending more money collectively on smokes and snacks. So it works out fine considering Rabba's size and low overheads. Plus, I hate going to Metro or Sobey's for just 3-4 items, where I have to walk a mile to fetch milk or bread and end up standing in line for 10-15 minutes as most of the night shift cashiers are considerably slow ( no offense).

No frills will most probably won't be 24 hrs so Sobey's and Rabba can still breathe.

Bottom line - No matter what people say. No Frills is what people in this majorly subsidized neighborhood required. Condo-owners are just lucky to have one more option.

 

[Automation Gallery]

but corner store Rabba will still survive because of cigrettes

Unless they are selling illegal cigarettes..cant see anyone being able to survive selling smokes at current prices.

 

[inside_man]

Unless they are selling illegal cigarettes..cant see anyone being able to survive selling smokes at current prices.

Smokes often end up dragging people in the store for further impulsive buying. If you want cheap smokes, go to Spadina/Dundas and shout " Liang chu "

 

[maestro]

They are car dealerships in cities around the world where the dealership occupies the ground floor retail space of building and there is no parking lot visible from a main street. I've seen it with mainstream brands like Toyota and Hyundai, to say nothing of an elite brand like Porsche.

The area has so much potential and surface parking lots are never go far in making for a great urban area. To think so is not an expression of some ferry tale war on cars; parking can always be implemented by integrating it into another building or below a public space. Such projects are more functional for a neighbourhood.

The property values aren't there to justify the additonal costs of underground parking or off site warehousing. Too often urbantoronto can't see past their idyllic dreams and accept that reality just isn't there yet.

The Mini Dealership on King made use of the parking lot next door (site of Victory Condos)