Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[aquateam]

So, Brampton wants to put the M back in this project as long as:

1. It is tunnelled between Gateway and DT Go; and
2. It is extended further north to (and I kid you not) Mayfield

According to Bramptonist, the tunnelling was added as an amendment as an option to be looked at.

Brown also suggested that Brampton consider the previously considered tunnel option. “We never looked at the cost around tunnelling, that might have taken away some of the divisions,” he said.

But the city did take a cursory look at the tunnel option back in February of 2016 and costs were estimated at upwards of $570 million.

Nonetheless, in a bid to show a united front, and to foster collaboration, Dhillon amended his motion to allow for city staff to consider the tunnel route, despite having the six votes needed to pass the motion without the amendment.

The amended motion was passed with unanimous support from council.

So the original motion was at grade along main street.

 

[TOareaFan]

According to Bramptonist, the tunnelling was added as an amendment as an option to be looked at.



So the original motion was at grade along main street.

which motion did they vote on? the one with tunneling or the one without? The tunnel is, actually, the least egregious idea they came up with yesterday (with the lane/sidewalk plan reducing Main in the area to one vehicular lane which, presumably, would now be shared by cars, buses, trucks, lrt vehicles the tunnel may actually be a necessity to create an LRT that "works")......taking any LRT north to Bovarid on Main is a stretch.....taking it to Mayfield is just transit insanity.

 

[robmausser]

So, Brampton wants to put the M back in this project as long as:

1. It is tunnelled between Gateway and DT Go; and
2. It is extended further north to (and I kid you not) Mayfield

LOL tunnelled between Gateway and GO? LOL

Ok, I could see a case to be made for just the heritage downtown Brampton area, maybe, but this is what the street is like north of Gateway

https://goo.gl/maps/3kFseseVouv

Its literally a huge empty grassy field.

 

[raptor]

Brampton deserves Subways, Subways, Subways, no?!
Let's see Brown and his council pony up the funds for this tunnel.

 

[TOareaFan]

LOL tunnelled between Gateway and GO? LOL

Ok, I could see a case to be made for just the heritage downtown Brampton area, maybe, but this is what the street is like north of Gateway

https://goo.gl/maps/3kFseseVouv

Its literally a huge empty grassy field.

To be fair to them (although I am not sure why) I don't think they actually stated how long the tunneled part would be....in the past the tunnel "suggestion" was from, roughly, Etobicoke Creek to the GO.......so not all of that area you show in the map is likely being suggested as a tunnel.....apologies if my attempt at brevity confused the issue/matter.

 

[TOareaFan]

Brampton deserves Subways, Subways, Subways, no?!
Let's see Brown and his council pony up the funds for this tunnel.

Like I said, take a look at the built form between Bovaird and Mayfield....you will realize the tunnel is not the dumbest thing they suggested yesterday.

 

[W. K. Lis]

LOL tunnelled between Gateway and GO? LOL

Ok, I could see a case to be made for just the heritage downtown Brampton area, maybe, but this is what the street is like north of Gateway

https://goo.gl/maps/3kFseseVouv

Its literally a huge empty grassy field.

It is now. Over time, it will be redeveloped.

However, if they want to extend (and tunnel) the LRT north to Mayfield, they have to zone for mixed HIGH-DENSITY along the route.

 

[TOareaFan]

It is now. Over time, it will be redeveloped.

However, if they want to extend (and tunnel) the LRT north to Mayfield, they have to zone for mixed HIGH-DENSITY along the route.

I don't think the portion to Mayfield is expected to be tunneled but there is nothing really to rezone between Bovaird and Mayfield.

The entire east side of the street is fully "developed" with single family dwellings....and not even ones that face the road....old style developments where the back yard meets the street with only and 8 foot tall sound barrier fence and wide sidwalk and grassy section between the fence and the road.

The west side is mish-mash of very low density retail and (up until recently) horse farms.....the farms are being replaced by brand new industrial/warehouse facilities.

Taking BRT north of Bovaird is silly (but I can see why Zum goes to Sandalwood....although I would have taken it to the Sandalwood terminal) but taking an LRT up there is a criminal waste of money.

 

[Hopkins123]

Like I said, take a look at the built form between Bovaird and Mayfield....you will realize the tunnel is not the dumbest thing they suggested yesterday.

But then you would be creating 2 tiers of transit for anyone unfortunate enough to live or work in North Brampton. I'll never forget the time I needed to get from Wanless/Hurontario to connect with the 502 and was stranded for almost 45 minutes. It would've been better to walk to Sandalwood than await a bus. If Ottawa can future proof their phase 2 of the Confederation Line out to Trim, literally the middle of nowhere, surely Brampton's northern Gateway to Caledon and Orangeville can get built too.

 

[TOareaFan]

But then you would be creating 2 tiers of transit for anyone unfortunate enough to live or work in North Brampton.

Wasn't aware those northern reaches of Brampton were enforced settlements Kidding aside, the "where does the line get drawn" issue exists in every municipality everywhere. Not every home in Toronto, for example, is walking distance to a subway.

I'll never forget the time I needed to get from Wanless/Hurontario to connect with the 502 and was stranded for almost 45 minutes. It would've been better to walk to Sandalwood than await a bus.

The fact that the transit folks at BT (the ones who have an idea about ridership - present and projected) have not seen fit within their budget/mandate to even extend the 2 (or a branch of the 2) north to Wanless or Mayfield has to tell a story about how viable an LRT extension is/will be......no?

If Ottawa can future proof their phase 2 of the Confederation Line out to Trim, literally the middle of nowhere, surely Brampton's northern Gateway to Caledon and Orangeville can get built too.

I have no idea about Trim...what it looks like today or what it will look like in the future.......but if it is going to look anything like Hurontario north of Bovaird then they are wasting their money "future proofing".

 

[ShonTron]

Here's the full text. It's lengthy (too lengthy for UT)

Here's the preamble:

“Building a Comprehensive Transit Network for all of Brampton”

Whereas the primary goal of transit is to move people efficiently and to provide frequent service to a large number of people, and transit should be considered as a public service which has many benefits;

Whereas Brampton Transit ridership increased by 18% in 2017, continues to increase in 2018 (15.6% year-over-year as of October), and people need rapid transit to be built as quickly as possible and public transit is first and foremost a public service for people;

Whereas Brampton needs a comprehensive Transit Network Plan and investment in many transit routes that will serve as many people as possible across Brampton;

Whereas the Transit and Transportation Master Plan (TTMP) was approved by Council (Item P&1S156-2015) on July 8, 2015 and recommended LRT on Main Street; Zum BRT on Kennedy, Queen and Steeles; as well as other routes;

Whereas the Brampton Official Plan calls for higher-order transit on Main Street and aligns with the TTMP;

Whereas Brampton’s Official Plan calls for higher-order transit on Main Street as part of a network;

Whereas 69% of mobility trips are inside Peel Region and large numbers of people commute to and from Mississauga/Brampton;

Whereas, the Hurontario Main Light Rail Transit (HMLRT) Environmental Assessment (EA) was completed in 2014 and Brampton staff reviewed all of the options and recommended the Main Street route for LRT in 2015;

Whereas specifically, staff wrote in their June 22, 2018 report (File HA.a (EA 10-3130-101)):

• LRT is required to meet transit ridership demands of 35 million people annually along the Hurontario-Main corridor, which will exceed the capacity of Zum services.
• A third party peer review confirmed that the findings of the alternative alignments assessment report are appropriate and defensible.
• LRT for Main Street supports the Council approved land use policy for the corridor and Downtown Brampton, protects for a future extension to the Brampton-Caledon boundary, and allows events in Downtown Brampton including the Farmers Market, parades, etc. to still occur

Whereas staff wrote about LRT for Main Street in their February 22, 2016 report (File IA.A (16-3130101):

• Higher order transit connects communities within an integrated regional transit network. Key transit networks within Brampton include the Kitchener GO Rail line and higher order transit service on Queen Street and Hurontario/Main Street. These are important east/west and north/south lines that connect to destinations inside and outside of Brampton. These networks are designed to converge on the Downtown Brampton GO station/mobility hub, where riders connect to other transportation modes and destinations such as Kitchener and Toronto, along the “innovation corridor”. The LRT alignment must connect to the Brampton GO station, consistent with the Regional Transportation Plan and the City’s Transportation Master Plan and Strategic Plan, as recognized by Council’s resolution.
• The other key policy driver in considering the best alignment is the need to achieve transit supportive land uses and densities along the transit route. Brampton’s Official Plan defines a City Structure that reflects the close relationship between higher order transit and intensification and allows the City to grow sustainably as directed in the Provincial Policy Statement, The Growth Plan, the Transportation Master Plan, the Regional Official Plan and the City’s Official Plan.
• Further, this alignment does not have significant technical issues including impacts on the regulatory floodplain, Orangeville Brampton Railway (OBRY) train operations, and major property impacts.

Whereas the EA was peer-reviewed by third-party professional consultants who found the EA was conducted in an acceptable fashion;

Whereas Brampton can draw on best practices and examples of construction mitigation, community benefits, support for local and small business, and mitigation strategies for any form or location of rapid transit expansion;

Whereas Brampton’s economy will benefit from a comprehensive transit network plan that includes LRT on Main St and other rapid transit routes, as workers and businesses of all sizes depend on efficient mobility, and studies have shown that investing in transit creates short-term and longer-term jobs;

Whereas building transit can grow the tax base as it encourages companies to expand and hire more workers;

Whereas in 2015 the Province was willing to provide 100% capital funding for the HMLRT along Main Street, including paying for the replacement (like-for-like) of any necessary infrastructure, and staff told Council in 2015 that the LRT on Main Street would save Brampton Transit $300,000 per year by 2031 in operating costs;

Whereas in July and Oct 27, 2015 many people spoke in favour of the Main St. route;

Whereas, the HMLRT Main Street route is the closest rapid transit route in Brampton to being shovel ready, and the Provincial and Federal governments provide opportunities for requesting funding for projects from infrastructure and other programs;

Whereas, usually requesting funding requires having shovel-ready projects;

Whereas, other municipalities and the Province are in discussions about other rapid transit projects such as further expansion of the Scarborough Subway, and Brampton needs to present a comprehensive Rapid Transit Network Plan as soon as possible in order to secure funding;

Whereas the HMLRT track plan had switchbacks between Steeles Avenue and the terminal station that would allow the Farmer’s Market and the Santa Claus Parade to continue as they currently operate;

Whereas LRT technology exists around the world and in many urban settings and adjacent to historic buildings;

Whereas in three years the people of Brampton still have not been given the capital costs for a Kennedy and McLaughlin LRT, an assessment of traffic impacts on Steeles Avenue and the goods movement implications, an assessment on expropriation of properties required, the impact on employment lands on Kennedy Road, or turn restrictions for small businesses on Kennedy Road;

Whereas stopping the Hurontario LRT (HuLRT) at Steeles Avenue will create a negative experience for people using transit, may subject them to hazards, will slow down movement for all, and reversing LRV’s at this busy intersection will slow commute times for users; Steeles-Main-Hurontario intersection is a key location in Brampton and stopping LRT at this location is problematic for people who use transit and drive through this intersection;

Whereas interlining Kennedy Road BRT with Queen Street BRT would work more efficiently as the two systems can easily run together and be an effective use of capital and operating dollars;

Whereas Brampton has missed opportunities to take advantage of funding in the past because we did not have qualifying shovel-ready projects;

Whereas Ryerson University is committed to building a University presence in the downtown core and in close proximity to the terminus of the HMLRT, Queen Street Bus Rapid Transit (Queen Street BRT), and the Brampton GO Station;

Whereas this motion will enhance Brampton Transit’s existing and future network and connect to many existing transit routes;

Whereas Brampton can look to examples in Toronto and Hamilton for Community Benefit Agreements when implementing rapid transit and to Hamilton for examples how Hamilton Council communicated with the local transit union;

Whereas this motion is not about only supporting Main Street over other routes, rather, it is about building a network to serve more people in Brampton;

Whereas this motion also communicates Council’s support for GO Transit train enhancements for the Kitchener Line ,as part of a comprehensive transit plan for Brampton;

Whereas Larry Beasley said Brampton should accept transit funding when it is offered regardless of the route;

Whereas the Provincial government and the Minister of Transportation have communicated their desire for efficient transit capital projects, including LRT for Main Street and providing rapid transit for additional routes meets this test;

 

[ShonTron]

Here's the main motion:

Therefore be it resolved:

That LRT for Main Street as originally recommended by Brampton staff be immediately restored as part of the Brampton Transit Network Plan;

That LRT no longer be considered for Kennedy Road or McLaughlin Road;

That staff be directed to revise the Brampton LRT Extension Study to (a) make any minor updates to the HMLRT EA, (b) use Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) as the technology for Kennedy Road and McLaughlin Road and consider extending those alignments further north and/or south, (c) study rapid transit options from the Brampton GO Station to Mayfield Road on Main Street as contemplated in the TTMP, and (d) report back on an implementation strategy for a downtown Mobility Hub;

That staff also be directed to report back in expediting the Queen Street Transit Master Plan study and timeline to commence an EA in order to get the BRT project to shovel ready status in order to secure Provincial and Federal funding;

That staff also be directed to consider electric buses for any BRT project;

That Council communicate to Metrolinx its support for (a) more all-day, two-way peak and off-peak GO train service on the Kitchener Line, (b) electrification proceeding west of the Bramalea GO Station, (c) encourage the rail optimization strategy that is currently underway be expedited including the start the EA for the freight bypass and the EAs for the “Kitchener additional track”, “Heritage Road Layover”, and “Georgetown to Kitchener GO” as noted on page 144 of the November 2018 GO Expansion Full Business Case, and (d) encourage more GO bus service and capacity while the above-noted EAs are conducted; and

That staff be directed to immediately communicate the position of Council to the Premier's Office, the Minister of Transportation, all Brampton MPs and MPPs; and Council be directed to meet with Brampton’s MPs and MPPs immediately to discuss how to collaboratively work together for a Brampton transit network.

 

[raptor]

That's all great, but good luck getting funding from Dougie. The train has left the station.

 

[robmausser]

Like I said, take a look at the built form between Bovaird and Mayfield....you will realize the tunnel is not the dumbest thing they suggested yesterday.

Tunnelling under the downtown heritage area is a more reasonable prospect, yes. Still completely and wildly unnecessary for a city the size of Brampton, but much more reasonable than north of Shoppers World.

 

[ShonTron]

Here’s the amended motion that got unanimous approval. It puts LRT back on Main, and the tunnel is up for study again. I guess the intent was to at least get the route back to its logical alignment, with more study of a tunnel as a compromise.