Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[MrsNesbitt]

The current Mayor, however, supports the LRT in the route that ML is proposing.

One of her main competitors was part of the group that voted for this motion against the current proposal and the other major competitor has been (as with most issues) non-commital and a bit vague.

Of course there's the issue that the current mayor, Susan Fennell, is in all sorts of legal hot water right now.

I'm not the most knowledgeable on Brampton but I can't help but think that a direct routing along Main St is the best option. People naturally gravitate to straight transit routes rather than those that loop around, and a routing through downtown and connecting to Brampton GO will be beneficial still. In my opinion connection to the mobility hub is the most important.

 

[TOareaFan]

Of course there's the issue that the current mayor, Susan Fennell, is in all sorts of legal hot water right now.

Bit irrelevent to the post I was responding to......the premise from ShonTron was get rid of current Mayor and then the LRT on the ML plan gets back on track. The current Mayor however is the only major candidate to publicly support the ML plan....one of the others actively opposes it and the other one just says she will talk to ML.

If this LRT was the only issue in the election (clearly not the case) and the goal was get approval of the current ML plan...then the current Mayor is your best bet. That said, it really is not a big issue in town.

I'm not the most knowledgeable on Brampton but I can't help but think that a direct routing along Main St is the best option. People naturally gravitate to straight transit routes rather than those that loop around, and a routing through downtown and connecting to Brampton GO will be beneficial still. In my opinion connection to the mobility hub is the most important.

If LRT is needed here at all, then yes the direct route would be the one I choose. Interesting though, that the latest stuff from ML/GO around GO expansion seems to be pointing to any future AD2W GO service on the KW line as being a mix of trains connecting KW by making all stops to Mt. Pleasant then express to Union and local trains starting in Mt. Pleasant and making all stops to Union. So, if that is the direction they are taking, how important a factor is this connectivity at the downtown Hub? Who is connecting from the GO train to the LRT then?

 

[Markster]

Interesting though, that the latest stuff from ML/GO around GO expansion seems to be pointing to any future AD2W GO service on the KW line as being a mix of trains connecting KW by making all stops to Mt. Pleasant then express to Union and local trains starting in Mt. Pleasant and making all stops to Union. So, if that is the direction they are taking, how important a factor is this connectivity at the downtown Hub? Who is connecting from the GO train to the LRT then?

That's a separate issue that needs to be brought up with Metrolinx. I suspect that for that report, they simply drew a line at the half-way point along the line (as they did for other lines in that report). It is clearly designed around operational convenience, not around the goals of a regional transit network. As a Kitchener resident, I would strongly prefer for any express GO service to serve Brampton GO. I'm far more likely to want to take a train to downtown Brampton than I am to Mount Pleasant.

Having a meaningful rapid transit connection at Brampton GO is virtually a necessity for me to consider making a trip to Brampton and north Mississauga by anything other than car. As a visiting traveler, I don't have to struggle to figure out where the route runs. I prefer the Main St alignment as it's an obvious route. Simple. It's a straight line on a map. The brainlessness is the appeal.

 

[TOareaFan]

That's a separate issue that needs to be brought up with Metrolinx. I suspect that for that report, they simply drew a line at the half-way point along the line (as they did for other lines in that report). It is clearly designed around operational convenience, not around the goals of a regional transit network.

I would partly agree (the operational convenience part) but I disagree with the notion they just threw a dot down at the mid-point. If you read the similar pages for other lines, they are proposing to do the same thing with LSW using Oakville as a significant hub. Trains west of Oakville would operate all stops to Oakville then express to Union and a separate service would operate all stops from Oakville to Union (interestingly, on that line they will have to deal with the express trains from Oakville and west bypassing the major trip generators of the Ex/BMO/Ontario Place).

In the case of the KW line, the operational convenience would be to limit the number of trains that stop at the pinchpoint in DT Brampton...which is a major issue. The fact that they have thought this out shows me that this is more than just picking the midpoint. (that and the fact that I think Mt. Pleasant is far from the midpoint).

As a Kitchener resident, I would strongly prefer for any express GO service to serve Brampton GO. I'm far more likely to want to take a train to downtown Brampton than I am to Mount Pleasant.

Current ML thinking, then, would mean you would have to transfer to a local train at Mt. Pleasant for the last stop on that journey.

Having a meaningful rapid transit connection at Brampton GO is virtually a necessity for me to consider making a trip to Brampton and north Mississauga by anything other than car. As a visiting traveler, I don't have to struggle to figure out where the route runs. I prefer the Main St alignment as it's an obvious route. Simple. It's a straight line on a map. The brainlessness is the appeal.

According to their own numbers, the LRT will save exactly 3 minutes travel time between Brampton GO and Steeles relative to the current Zum bus service.

 

[Markster]

I would partly agree (the operational convenience part) but I disagree with the notion they just threw a dot down at the mid-point. If you read the similar pages for other lines, they are proposing to do the same thing with LSW using Oakville as a significant hub. Trains west of Oakville would operate all stops to Oakville then express to Union and a separate service would operate all stops from Oakville to Union

I don't really mean "threw a dot on a map". By "mid-point", my guess is that they picked the point at which the trains have collected 50% of the ridership load.

(interestingly, on that line they will have to deal with the express trains from Oakville and west bypassing the major trip generators of the Ex/BMO/Ontario Place).

As will the Kitchener and Milton trains. Which, of course, they currently bypass regardless, but it is much the same issue of a service on the same corridor not serving stations. It will be an interesting day when multiple lines start stopping at all of the stations they pass.

In the case of the KW line, the operational convenience would be to limit the number of trains that stop at the pinchpoint in DT Brampton...which is a major issue.

Hmm... if it's actually a pinch point, doesn't that imply no passing opportunity? It seems like a preferred place to have all services stop, if they're stuck going through one at a time anyway. (On the other hand, I see that signalling might get problematic, if you don't have multiple platforms for trains to pull up to)

Current ML thinking, then, would mean you would have to transfer to a local train at Mt. Pleasant for the last stop on that journey.

Which would decrease the chance of me choosing to use the service to go to Brampton.

According to their own numbers, the LRT will save exactly 3 minutes travel time between Brampton GO and Steeles relative to the current Zum bus service.

Which is nice, but, as a traveler, my concern is more so over how complicated a service it.

 

[Markster]

I'd be really curious to see the list of 11 alternate alignments. I don't think that's surfaced in this thread?

 

[rbt]

Hmm... if it's actually a pinch point, doesn't that imply no passing opportunity? It seems like a preferred place to have all services stop, if they're stuck going through one at a time anyway. (On the other hand, I see that signalling might get problematic, if you don't have multiple platforms for trains to pull up to)

3/4 tracks + 2 thin side platforms (ground level entry/exit points) takes up far less space than 4 tracks plus 2 broad center platforms (broad because 2 trains could emergency unload and stairs/elevators must be accommodated).

I would expect very popular suburban destinations would eventually be both an express and local stop; perhaps at significant cost.

 

[TOareaFan]

I don't really mean "threw a dot on a map". By "mid-point", my guess is that they picked the point at which the trains have collected 50% of the ridership load.

Again, then, that can't be Mt. Pleasant....just eyballing, about 50% of the ridership seems to be in Bramalea.

Hmm... if it's actually a pinch point, doesn't that imply no passing opportunity? It seems like a preferred place to have all services stop, if they're stuck going through one at a time anyway. (On the other hand, I see that signalling might get problematic, if you don't have multiple platforms for trains to pull up to)

That pinchpoint is created because there are only 2 tracks but it is a, relatively, heavily used freight line/area.....if every train (in both directions) was stopping at Brampton it would increase the number of times that both tracks were blocked by stopped trains. By moving trains through you decrease that issue (you don't eliminate it but you do decrease it).

Which would decrease the chance of me choosing to use the service to go to Brampton.

No doubt...but it does seem to be the way ML is going.

Which is nice, but, as a traveler, my concern is more so over how complicated a service it.

That bus service is very simple.....and serves everywhere the LRT will....and at a much lower cost.

 

[Markster]

Again, then, that can't be Mt. Pleasant....just eyballing, about 50% of the ridership seems to be in Bramalea.

Which certainly indicates that there's probably wiggle room. Usually, services split the Local/Express run at a heavy use station, or at least at a local centre. (I'm reminded of Metro North's Hartford line, which splits the local and express at Stamford.) It will receive double the service of any other station on the line, so it had better be an important location.

That bus service is very simple.....and serves everywhere the LRT will....and at a much lower cost.

Certainly, a BRT straight down Main/Hurontario would be better than an LRT that doesn't service Brampton GO (or services it in an excessively diverted fashion). That said, Mississauga is on the LRT bandwagon, and having a forced transfer at Steeles is even worse than the status quo.
The merits of LRT vs BRT is a debate best left elsewhere. (We've all been on that merry-go-round enough)

 

[salsa]

Which certainly indicates that there's probably wiggle room. Usually, services split the Local/Express run at a heavy use station, or at least at a local centre. (I'm reminded of Metro North's Hartford line, which splits the local and express at Stamford.) It will receive double the service of any other station on the line, so it had better be an important location.

Speaking of Metro North, isn't that the kind of system we will be getting once electrification and service expansion is implemented? Why do we always compare it to European systems, are they any different than Metro North?

 

[TOareaFan]

Which certainly indicates that there's probably wiggle room. Usually, services split the Local/Express run at a heavy use station, or at least at a local centre. (I'm reminded of Metro North's Hartford line, which splits the local and express at Stamford.) It will receive double the service of any other station on the line, so it had better be an important location.

Prior to this recent publication by ML I believe everyone had assumed the connection point between local and express service would be at the very high ridership Bramalea station. The fact that they have now moved their thinking to Mt. Pleasant (with the express service bypassing the two busiest stations on the route and the one true town centre station) tells me they are doing so as a way to alleviate the pressure on the DT Brampton chokepoint.

Certainly, a BRT straight down Main/Hurontario would be better than an LRT that doesn't service Brampton GO (or services it in an excessively diverted fashion). That said, Mississauga is on the LRT bandwagon, and having a forced transfer at Steeles is even worse than the status quo.
The merits of LRT vs BRT is a debate best left elsewhere. (We've all been on that merry-go-round enough)

For most of the ridership in Brampton (ie. the people living north of Church) either option creates a forced transfer....it is just a question of whether it is at Church or Steeles and whether the cost/aggrivation of moving it to Church is worth it.

 

[Dan416]

F**k Brampton. What a shithole. I work in Brampton and it's a traffic nightmare. To be fair, who on earth would want to go to Brampton? Stop the line at the 407 and no one will care.

But seriously people, this was a join Brampton/Mississauga project. City staff at Brampton must be pissed.

 

[TOareaFan]

F**k Brampton. What a shithole. I work in Brampton and it's a traffic nightmare. To be fair, who on earth would want to go to Brampton? Stop the line at the 407 and no one will care.

But seriously people, this was a join Brampton/Mississauga project. City staff at Brampton must be pissed.

Stop being such a child with the insults. But you are nearly there....I still think the optimal situation and use of public resources is the south (SQ1 to PC) being LRT and the north being BRT.....no need to take it to the 407

 

[gweed123]

Stop being such a child with the insults. But you are nearly there....I still think the optimal situation and use of public resources is the south (SQ1 to PC) being LRT and the north being BRT.....no need to take it to the 407

At this point I think that may be the best course of action as well. That way the loop around Square One becomes less of an issue too, because you'll need to transfer at the Sq 1 terminal anyways. Who knows, the money saved by going BRT instead of LRT north of Sq 1 can be put towards another Mississauga project (Dundas BRT for example).

 

[ShonTron]

F**k Brampton. What a shithole. I work in Brampton and it's a traffic nightmare. To be fair, who on earth would want to go to Brampton? Stop the line at the 407 and no one will care.

But seriously people, this was a join Brampton/Mississauga project. City staff at Brampton must be pissed.

The staffers at Brampton would certainly be pissed. The planning, transportation and transit staff put so much work into this and were totally committed to the project. I attended nearly all the EA meetings.

Don't tell Brampton to F**k off, tell Susan Fennell, her lackeys on council, Bill Davis and the rich Tory blues (of whom Brampton Council largely consist of, rather than the actual city's population) to screw off. Watch it!