Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[TOareaFan]

Don't tell Brampton to F**k off, tell Susan Fennell, her lackeys on council, Bill Davis and the rich Tory blues (of whom Brampton Council largely consist of, rather than the actual city's population) to screw off. Watch it!

Again...repeating something over and over again does not make it so.

1. For all her faults (and they are numerous) she stands alone as the only candidate for Mayor (and it seems the only member of the current council) who has spoken in favour of the LRT and its currently proposed ML routing.
2. As the vote the other day shows, she has no lackeys on council....the 10-0 vote against the ML plan is, as much as anything, 10 people showing they do not stand with her and putting space between themselves and her (ie. setting up the next council meeting as yet another she against we meeting). Perhaps (if the goal is to get the ML route approved) the best strategy for ML would be to get her to publicly state the ML route is a non-starter that she is now opposed to....then I can pretty much assure you there would be a 10-1 vote approving the ML route.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

I'd be really curious to see the list of 11 alternate alignments. I don't think that's surfaced in this thread?

Who generated said list, Metrolinx? I don't keep up in this thread.

 

[TOareaFan]

Who generated said list, Metrolinx? I don't keep up in this thread.

At the request of some pressure groups......Brampton Council commissioned a study to look at alternatives (they did not define them)....the study is complete but undergoing peer review....all that we know is they came up with 11 alternatives (beyond including things like flying streetcars, most are having trouble thinking of 11 alternatives....likely a core group of 3 or 4 alternatives with sub-alternatives within them....I would think).

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

At the request of some pressure groups......Brampton Council commissioned a study to look at alternatives (they did not define them)....the study is complete but undergoing peer review....all that we know is they came up with 11 alternatives (beyond including things like flying streetcars, most are having trouble thinking of 11 alternatives....likely a core group of 3 or 4 alternatives with sub-alternatives within them....I would think).

I would guess that that is the case. I review environmental project reports for public infrastructure often, sometimes they just break it up linear facilities into sections (e.g. south, central, north), review alternatives for those sections, and then stick the couple preferred alternatives together and double check that they will work together.

 

[Long Island Mike]

GO Electrification: Like Metro-North's New Haven Line? Not quite...

Speaking of Metro North, isn't that the kind of system we will be getting once electrification and service expansion is implemented? Why do we always compare it to European systems, are they any different than Metro North?

Salsa: Metro-North's New Haven Line uses two power sources: DC Third rail from Grand Central Terminal to Pelham,NY and then
AC overhead catenary wire from Pelham to New Haven,CT...

The M8 MU cars could be a type of railcar that GO Transit might consider - without the need for DC - when it comes time to place
an order or better yet test out rail cars - SEPTA's Silverliner 5 may be another option...

Markster: You are actually referring to MNCR's New Haven Line which has three or four tracks for much of its route...
Hartford,CT is served by Amtrak Springfield Line trains and may be turned over to the CT DOT which would operate
more frequent commuter type service with lower fares...

LI MIKE

 

[Markster]

Thanks for the correction. I last rode it in 2009, and was going from memory.

 

[drum118]

Brampton needs to visit Norfolk VA to see how they dealt with their narrow street for LRT let alone around the world.

This is one of the many blocks that the LRT runs in Mix/separated traffic on the narrow street.

They want to build an 3 mile extension to Virginia Beach at a cost of $325 including more cars and expecting to see 2,250 riders a day within 20 years. Mind blowing for numbers for an LRT line.

Service is every 15 minutes and 30 after 9 pm. Start up at 11 am on Sunday and 6pm rest the week.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Brampton needs to visit Norfolk VA to see how they dealt with their narrow street for LRT let alone around the world.

This is one of the many blocks that the LRT runs in Mix/separated traffic on the narrow street.

They want to build an 3 mile extension to Virginia Beach at a cost of $325 including more cars and expecting to see 2,250 riders a day within 20 years. Mind blowing for numbers for an LRT line.

Service is every 15 minutes and 30 after 9 pm. Start up at 11 am on Sunday and 6pm rest the week.

That 15 & 30 minute headway service sounds like a TTC Blue Night service. Don't think Brampton/Mississauga would have that kind of headway for any LRT.

 

[mpd618]

They want to build an 3 mile extension to Virginia Beach at a cost of $325 including more cars and expecting to see 2,250 riders a day within 20 years. Mind blowing for numbers for an LRT line.

Like, mind-blowingly bad? Because that's an atrocious ridership target.

 

[EnviroTO]

They want to build an 3 mile extension to Virginia Beach at a cost of $325 including more cars and expecting to see 2,250 riders a day within 20 years. Mind blowing for numbers for an LRT line.

Can zeros be added to the right of that dollar figure or ridership figure? 2,250 riders a day is abysmal, but still worth it if it only cost $325 to build.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

F**k Brampton. What a shithole. I work in Brampton and it's a traffic nightmare. To be fair, who on earth would want to go to Brampton? Stop the line at the 407 and no one will care.

But seriously people, this was a join Brampton/Mississauga project. City staff at Brampton must be pissed.

Just going back to this... while crude it raises a good point. Most of us have no reason to go Brampton; we're just armchair quarterbacks. If Brampton council (and by extension, the voters) don't support this project, then fine. It will save the rest of us some money if the province doesn't fund the LRT, and we can just continue ignoring Brampton while it slides further into being a traffic-choked, sprawling mess. Any Brampton city staff who care about transit should consider moving to a different city...

 

[TOareaFan]

Just going back to this... while crude it raises a good point. Most of us have no reason to go Brampton; we're just armchair quarterbacks. If Brampton council (and by extension, the voters) don't support this project, then fine. It will save the rest of us some money if the province doesn't fund the LRT, and we can just continue ignoring Brampton while it slides further into being a traffic-choked, sprawling mess. Any Brampton city staff who care about transit should consider moving to a different city...

You are free to have any opinion you want about Brampton.....but no one has exhibited how this LRT ever addressed the issues that you point out.

Anyway, the Committee of Council recommendation (to defer this to study the 11 (?) alternatives) was put to full council yesterday. The motion passed 10-1. The lone dissenter (ie. the one person who opposed deferral in favour of proceeding with the ML planned route) was the Mayor. Interestingly (in case you doubted this has more to do with politics than transit) a couple of councillors asked the city's CAO if a vote for the motion prevented council from coming back after October 27 and then supporting the ML plan. Pretty clear sign that they wanted to vote against a project simply because the Mayor supports it and have an interest in coming back (presumably with a new Mayor) and re-voting on the ML plan.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

I honestly don't care what happens in Brampton. That being said, the Hurontario LRT seems like a pretty obvious improvement over both the current situation (because buses suck) and a future hypothetical scenario where everyone on Hurontario has to transfer at Steeles. Turning down a free LRT is a really moronic move.

 

[TOareaFan]

I honestly don't care what happens in Brampton. That being said, the Hurontario LRT seems like a pretty obvious improvement over both the current situation (because buses suck) and a future hypothetical scenario where everyone on Hurontario has to transfer at Steeles. Turning down a free LRT is a really moronic move.

By their own numbers, the LRT improves the transit travel time within the Brampton part of the route (Church to Steeles) by a full 3 minutes...so the if the buses "suck" then the LRT must "nearly suck"....no?

As for the transfer.....most of the Brampton riders would have to transfer at Church anyway....so there is not such a big change for them.

The LRT touches/affects a very, very, small percentage of the population (and a pretty small percentage of the transit using population) of Brampton so, again, how does the LRT change the "traffic-choked, sprawling mess" that you think Brampton is?

Now the attitude that this is a "free LRT" is what is gonna ruin this province.....everyone is grabbing for the next higher order of transit, the fancier transit shiny new thing irrespective of what the ridership demand would indicate is appropriate. Areas that should work with decent bus service are grabbing for BRT...areas (like the northern part of this LRT plan) that would work fine with BRT are grabbing for LRT and areas that work well with LRT are demanding subways. This is not just a road to financial ruin it is a sure fire way to ensure we run out of money to invest in transit long before we get a fully funcitional regional transit system.

Last time I checked, I pay far (far) more in provincial income and sales taxes (and other provincial fees) than the amount of property taxes I pay in Brampton.....so I don't consider this a free LRT.

 

[gweed123]

Now the attitude that this is a "free LRT" is what is gonna ruin this province.....everyone is grabbing for the next higher order of transit, the fancier transit shiny new thing irrespective of what the ridership demand would indicate is appropriate. Areas that should work with decent bus service are grabbing for BRT...areas (like the northern part of this LRT plan) that would work fine with BRT are grabbing for LRT and areas that work well with LRT are demanding subways. This is not just a road to financial ruin it is a sure fire way to ensure we run out of money to invest in transit long before we get a fully funcitional regional transit system.

Last time I checked, I pay far (far) more in provincial income and sales taxes (and other provincial fees) than the amount of property taxes I pay in Brampton.....so I don't consider this a free LRT.

This is why I think that Provincial funding should be given out based on a metrics like population and ridership. I actually did a little exercise a couple years ago where I calculated what percentage of any given Provincial funding should be given to various regions based on a model where 50% of the funding is divided up based on ridership, and 50% is divided up based on population (GO under this model is given 35% of the population, because it crosses municipal boundaries, so it's really a division of the remaining 65%). This is what I came up with:

The title in this case is a 1% sales tax, but it could really work for any Provincial funding amount, seeing as how it's a percentage. Under this setup, Peel Region would get 9% of Metrolinx' $15 billion allotment for the GTHA, or $1.35 billion. This should be enough to build the Hurontario LRT, and maybe have a bit left over for a couple other smaller projects.

If a region wants anything beyond what their allotment is, they have to pay for it themselves (ex: the Dundas BRT). Or they can start a ridership growth strategy, to get a bigger share of the pie the next time there's a pie to be divvied up.