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taal said:
The problem with this is they may take transit downtown, and would be willing to take a go-train from union to the venue, but not so willing to commute from there, as that aspect of the commute will likely be painful !
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Yeah, that's not ideal. I'd imagine most people from the western GTA with arrive via car or 407 bus.
 
taal said:
The problem with this is they may take transit downtown, and would be willing to take a go-train from union to the venue, but not so willing to commute from there, as that aspect of the commute will likely be painful !
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My point was...they won't take transit from downtown to the venue if transit is not going to get them back to where they live afterwards (even if their starting point at 5pm is downtown).

Bob lives in Mississauga (perhaps even right next door to the Dixie GO station).....Bob's client has given him tickets to the rodeo in Markham Tuesday night after work. Bob says "I gotta go to work...can't leave before 5? Gotta go to Markham enjoy the event then get home." How do I do that?

My bet, in the real world, Bob arrives at the conclusion that he should just drive to work that day....park downtown, struggle up to Markham....find a place to park.....then after the rodeo get in his car and drive home.

In the GTA (changing the locations around...ie. mabe he works in Mississauga but lives downtown) there are more "Bobs" than there are people who live and work in the same location and will have an easy transit option to Markham for the Rodeo.
 
Interesting:)

There is “strong speculation” the NHL will announce Canadian expansion teams once the new CBA is struck
According to no less a source than the editor of The Hockey News, there is “strong speculation” that once the NHL lockout ends the league will grant that wish, expanding to Quebec and adding a second team in the greater Toronto area.
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/20...n-expansion-teams-once-the-new-cba-is-struck/



NHL expansion has long been rumored in the Greater Toronto Area, and with $325 million in public financing already approved for a new hockey-ready arena in the town of Markham, Ontario, expansion could certainly come sooner than later.
Construction has not yet begun on the Markham arena, but developers hope to break ground as soon as January, with the idea of opening in the fall of 2014. If that optimistic timetable is reached, a second Toronto-area team could presumably begin playing to start the 2014-15 season
http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2012/10/16/3511148/nhl-expansion-quebec-city-toronto-nhl-lockout-2012
 
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Who would be stupid enough to pay a premium for an expansion team when so many existing teams are in financial trouble?
 
GenerationW said:
Who would be stupid enough to pay a premium for an expansion team when so many existing teams are in financial trouble?
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This isn't the US southwest! A second GTA team would be able to print money.

Also, Bell and Rogers would get some sort of one-time territorial fee and have more content to broadcast, so I don't think it would be in their best interests to block it (if they have the power to do so, which is a matter of debate).
 
If this is true, I hope it's announced before city council votes on a lease arrangement with GTA Sports and Entertainment. Any questions about viability will be torn to shreds and the lease rate should reflect that.

Councillor Howard Shore has been tweeting a lot in the last two days about the possibility of another NHL team in the GTA, so I wonder what council has been told, if anything?
 
GenerationW said:
Who would be stupid enough to pay a premium for an expansion team when so many existing teams are in financial trouble?
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If you are suggesting that it would be cheaper to buy and move an existing, financially troubled, franchise rather than purchase an expansion team.....the answer is "maybe, maybe not".

At the end of the day you are still dealing with the NHL and need their approval to relocate. Use the failed Balsillie's attempt to buy and move the Coyotes. JB thought he was being smart....offered the then owner far more than the franchise was worth (but less than he would have to pay for a new franchise in Southern Ontario) and made the purchase conditional on getting approval to move. Approval that never came.

If the NHL wanted to fill the Quebec and 2ndGTAteam markets with expansion teams rather than relocated troubled teams they have the power to do that simply by setting the price of relocation + franchise purchase at a total figure that was substantially higher than the price they wanted for an expansion team.

I think expansion is not a great idea....but it is their business, they can control how/if they grow and they can control how/where/if teams move.
 
Whoever is financing this is going to have to know what the income stream is. Regular financing payments MUST be paid. If there is no regular income, then the payments must be guaranteed by someone. In this case the municipality is going to be left holding the bag.

If they don't have a revenue generating tenant (hockey franchise or other) this thing can't financially fly. If the municipality goes forward without a good tenant and a rental contract, the taxpayers are going to have to cover all shortfalls and if there is no regular income stream, those shortfalls will be regular.

If Rudy Bratty is so convinced of the merits of this deal, why is he looking for a financial partner to share or cover the risks??

I think the municipality is exposing itself to SIGNIFICANT risk if it moves ahead without a franchise tenant. It has the smell of law suits all over it.
 
canarob said:
This isn't the US southwest! A second GTA team would be able to print money.

Also, Bell and Rogers would get some sort of one-time territorial fee and have more content to broadcast, so I don't think it would be in their best interests to block it (if they have the power to do so, which is a matter of debate).
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The RogersBell duo should not be trivialized. These guys will defend their turf vigorously. Whether or not they have the grounds is almost irrelevant. To any judge in the land it would be easy for them to argue they have a strong " interest" and/or they will be significantly impacted which is enough to cause almost unending legal delays. The fact that it is unclear to almost any one if they have the ability to block it should be evidence that a court will have equal difficulty to establish rights here and time becomes the enemy. If I were on council I would want to see a very strong plan to deal with RogersBell and possibly others that might delay or eliminate a hockey franchise here.
 
If this expansion is actually in the works, I would say there's a good chance that the NHL insisted that Rogers/Bell accept a second team in the market during their approval process as NHL owners. A similar thing happened this past year in MLB, where they would only approve the sale of the Houston Astros if the owner agreed to a move to the American League.

There's also the fact that Rogers/Bell bought the Leafs/Raptors/TFC (along with Rogers already owning the Jays) for content. They acknowledged as much. Sports has become the only PVR proof TV property. Perhaps compensation was made where Rogers/Bell were given TV/Radio/Digital rights in exchange for allowing an expansion club.

If the NHL has been planning this for a while, they were definitely things they could have done to ensure this goes smoothly.
 
JMSRead said:
If this expansion is actually in the works, I would say there's a good chance that the NHL insisted that Rogers/Bell accept a second team in the market during their approval process as NHL owners. A similar thing happened this past year in MLB, where they would only approve the sale of the Houston Astros if the owner agreed to a move to the American League.

There's also the fact that Rogers/Bell bought the Leafs/Raptors/TFC (along with Rogers already owning the Jays) for content. They acknowledged as much. Sports has become the only PVR proof TV property. Perhaps compensation was made where Rogers/Bell were given TV/Radio/Digital rights in exchange for allowing an expansion club.

If the NHL has been planning this for a while, they were definitely things they could have done to ensure this goes smoothly.
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Excellent points!
 
TOareaFan said:
If you are suggesting that it would be cheaper to buy and move an existing, financially troubled, franchise rather than purchase an expansion team.....the answer is "maybe, maybe not".

At the end of the day you are still dealing with the NHL and need their approval to relocate. Use the failed Balsillie's attempt to buy and move the Coyotes. JB thought he was being smart....offered the then owner far more than the franchise was worth (but less than he would have to pay for a new franchise in Southern Ontario) and made the purchase conditional on getting approval to move. Approval that never came.

If the NHL wanted to fill the Quebec and 2ndGTAteam markets with expansion teams rather than relocated troubled teams they have the power to do that simply by setting the price of relocation + franchise purchase at a total figure that was substantially higher than the price they wanted for an expansion team.

I think expansion is not a great idea....but it is their business, they can control how/if they grow and they can control how/where/if teams move.
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That's exactly what I'm suggesting. And a prospective owner(s) can still play nice with the NHL and eventually get a team instead of going the Balsillie route. It worked for Winnipeg, and probably would have worked for Quebec City had a new owner not surfaced out of nowhere a few months ago (and for all we know that deal could still fall apart).

JMSRead said:
IThere's also the fact that Rogers/Bell bought the Leafs/Raptors/TFC (along with Rogers already owning the Jays) for content. They acknowledged as much. Sports has become the only PVR proof TV property. Perhaps compensation was made where Rogers/Bell were given TV/Radio/Digital rights in exchange for allowing an expansion club.
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You may be right. The prospect of getting additional content (especially the NHL variety) might be enough for Rogers/Bell to accept a second GTA team. As they say in broadcasting nowadays, content is king.
 
GenerationW said:
That's exactly what I'm suggesting. And a prospective owner(s) can still play nice with the NHL and eventually get a team instead of going the Balsillie route. It worked for Winnipeg, and probably would have worked for Quebec City had a new owner not surfaced out of nowhere a few months ago (and for all we know that deal could still fall apart).
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Winnipeg happened at a time when there was no plan to expand, so the league did play nice. If the reports that got this discussion going in this direction are true (big if) saying it would be cheaper/easier to buy and move an existing team rather than an expansion team is just not true. The league, with the goal of getting those expansion dollars, would make it more difficult/expensive to buy and move.....at least until they had filled their expansion slots/desires.

The Balsillie route was confrontational.....but if the league was, theoretically, ok with the move they would have negotiated a price with him....instead of just flat out refusing. I think they have known for a long time that there is a bit of a pot of gold in placing (at the right time) a second GTA team via the expansion route. QC may end up getting caught up in that because expansion from 30 - 32 is easier than 30 - 31 (scheduling, etc).
 
According to Bob McCown, Bettman went to the board sometime in 2010 and basically promised them he would get a whole whack of cash with expansion teams in Las Vegas and Kansas City. So there would have been expansion talk close to the time of the Winnipeg move if this story was true.
 
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