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gristle

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I didn't even take a side (RioCan/Allied vs. Oxford) and you're still going on about the evil casino.

I was simply stating that RioCan/Allied are quite obviously lobbying against Oxford place because it competes with their project. You explain to me how ~1 million SF of planned retail at Oxford doesn't directly compete with the ~500K SF that these guys are planning two blocks away? We get it, you don't like the casino. And you're blindly jumping on RioCan's wagon as a result.

The casino is mentioned because a sizable portion of the retail facilities and hotel for the Oxford proposal are related directly or indirectly to the casino, that's why the casino is mentioned. There is no casino related to Riocan/Allied proposal. Now is that clearer? In addition, the Riocan/Allied proposal will likely not resemble the the massive indoor mall approach of that shown (so far) in the Oxford proposal. If there is no casino on the Oxford site, then I's say that it's likely that the proposed retail space will either be smaller, or phased in over a long period of time because it isn't easy to lease 1,000,000 square feet of retail space. It's also likely that the very large hotel will be scaled back significantly if the casino doesn't appear.

Just so it's clear, it's you who is reading advocacy into my responses. Yes, I'm opposed to a downtown casino because it's a lousy location, because a considerable portion of the square feet of retail would reflect the needs of the casino and hotel (if the casino ends up being situated there). I'm certainly not opposed to redeveloping that section of Front Street, or adding more office towers, or improving the convention facilities, so there are interesting and attractive elements to the Oxford proposal. But to be clear, anyone who lives in King-Spadina would see the logic of creating a retail, office, residential destination on the Globe lands. The debate is about how it is to be executed. And I'm going to bet that Allied/Riocan/Diamond have already been talking with the local councillor and reaching out to the community.

Can you do your computing now?
 

Xray_Crystal_Junkie

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The situation only exemplifies the fact that investors and developers are less likely to bring their capital to this area if a casino gets built where proposed.

You mean investors wouldn't put up capital to put a large mall right next to another large mall within a few years of each other? Shocking.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to be against a casino, but this is reaching.

... the Riocan/Allied proposal will likely not resemble the the massive indoor mall approach of that shown (so far) in the Oxford proposal. If there is no casino on the Oxford site, then I's say that it's likely that the proposed retail space will either be smaller, or phased in over a long period of time because it isn't easy to lease 1,000,000 square feet of retail space. It's also likely that the very large hotel will be scaled back significantly if the casino doesn't appear.

You put a lot of faith in Riocan (who will be taking the lead on retail for this project). There entire portfolio points towards a massive indoor mall, that's what they do. Well outside of its big-box stores that dot suburbia.

... because a considerable portion of the square feet of retail would reflect the needs of the casino and hotel (if the casino ends up being situated there).

I still would like this spelled out a bit. What is casino oriented retail? High-end shopping? And how would that be detrimental?

Oxford's development also includes significant office and residential so I'm sure a large amount of the retail would be geared towards that demographic. As well, I'm sure those in charge are also able to take stock of the neighbourhood and cater a portion of the retail towards it. That's just smart business.

And I'm going to bet that Allied/Riocan/Diamond have already been talking with the local councillor and reaching out to the community.

If you think Oxford isn't smart enough to do this as well I'm quite confident you would be incorrect.

I'm not trying to defend Oxford per se. I just think you're really giving them the gears while allowing Riocan/Allied a pass. A situation of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".
 

gristle

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You put a lot of faith in Riocan (who will be taking the lead on retail for this project). There entire portfolio points towards a massive indoor mall, that's what they do. Well outside of its big-box stores that dot suburbia.

I'm not trying to defend Oxford per se. I just think you're really giving them the gears while allowing Riocan/Allied a pass. A situation of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Once again, you are relying on your misreading of my statements. I have not defended any one developer. That is an assumption you are making - and wasting a lot of time by repeating it. You seem to know my stance on the casino proposal, then you should know my opinion of the rest of the project. If you require clarification, check out the related thread. The retail portion of the Oxford proposal has been delivered in the same messaging as the casino. If the casino is not included, Oxford will likely amend their proposal. To what degree is unknown. There are other forces involved that go beyond the inclusion or exclusion of the mega-casino. And if you are actually aware of any ongoing community consultations with respect to the Oxford proposal - between the developer and neighbouring residents - let me know.

I'm fully aware of Riocan's record in the suburbs, but as I have noted earlier, this piece of land - and many of the expectations related to it - are different than the the Oxford proposal. That doesn't mean they won't be jockeying for some of the same retailers. As for your stated concerns about one participant in the G&M development, Riocan isn't operating in a vacuum; there are other involved - including one - Allied - that owns a considerable amount of property in the area. I doubt that their aim is to undermine the value of those existing assets.
 

interchange42

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Time to close this thread. Now that this is all one parcel again and the Globe office will be part of the larger RioCan/Allied/DiamondCorp mixed use complex, the topic can be picked up here.

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