Xray_Crystal_Junkie
Senior Member
Exactly.
Toronto Globe and Mail Headquarters: Never-Built | ?m | 18s | The Globe and Mail | KPMB
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gristle
Senior Member
The difference being that Allied/Riocan look to their development in terms of how it suits a growing residential community surrounding its lands, and the mall associated with the casino looking to suit (and essentially partially subsidized by) the next door casino business.
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Of course you are going to support Allied/Riocan, cause you are all anti-casino
but what puzzles me and you know very well, is that Allied/Riocan will ask for twice or triple the density that is allowed for that area, then you and your chums will all be preaching on how the developers, and the OMB, are these monsters in cahoots trying to destroy this growing residential community , when trutfully this downtown west growing residential community is an area of, FASHION, ENTERTAINMENT, SPORTS, THEATERS, CLUBS, RESTAURANTS, ETC. ETC. ETC....
I dont disagree with mixing residences in these areas, but come on,... an ENTERTAINMENT/CONVENTION CENTRE-CASINO at that Front Street location makes a lot more sense than the Allied/Riocan proposed MALL at this Globe location
Hey, Toronto is not sleepyville anymore, and if people want to move that close to the action
than they should be able to tolerate it, if not they should be looking at living at other quieter locations
Its mind boggling that people actually move into the hood with intentions to suck the life out of the city.....Nuts
Critique
Active Member
Its mind boggling that people actually move into the hood with intentions to suck the life out of the city.....Nuts
I find it interesting that you say this and was wondering if you could elaborate. Do you mean hood as in a ghetto type hood or hood as in a normal neighborhood? Just wondering because if you meant the first meaning, then I would have to disagree with you. People don't move into the "hood" as a plan to ruin the city. They do it because they can't afford downtown, they can't afford a condo, or a owned house. Neighborhoods become "hoods" because of bad planning and neglegance. If anything, it would be the city that makes these hoods to "suck the life out of the city". Then again, it is hard for the city to provide cheap housing and maintain high standards. In the end, not much you can do because everything depends on money. More money, more freedom.
Those who say money can't buy happiness usually haven't experienced what money can do.
SP!RE
°°°°°°
I don't think he meant 'hood as a derogatory term but rather just a short form for "neighbourhood"
That said, I disagree with his naive "the developers can do no wrong!" attitude and his prescription for what people should be okay with if they live downtown. Same old uninformed ramblings from AG.
That said, I disagree with his naive "the developers can do no wrong!" attitude and his prescription for what people should be okay with if they live downtown. Same old uninformed ramblings from AG.
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Hood as in short form for neighbourhood
400WellingtonGuy
Active Member
Of course you are going to support Allied/Riocan, cause you are all anti-casino
but what puzzles me and you know very well, is that Allied/Riocan will ask for twice or triple the density that is allowed for that area, then you and your chums will all be preaching on how the developers, and the OMB, are these monsters in cahoots trying to destroy this growing residential community , when trutfully this downtown west growing residential community is an area of, FASHION, ENTERTAINMENT, SPORTS, THEATERS, CLUBS, RESTAURANTS, ETC. ETC. ETC....
I dont disagree with mixing residences in these areas, but come on,... an ENTERTAINMENT/CONVENTION CENTRE-CASINO at that Front Street location makes a lot more sense than the Allied/Riocan proposed MALL at this Globe location
Hey, Toronto is not sleepyville anymore, and if people want to move that close to the action
than they should be able to tolerate it, if not they should be looking at living at other quieter locations
Its mind boggling that people actually move into the hood with intentions to suck the life out of the city.....Nuts
No one living in this neighbourhood has come here expecting "sleepyville". But we are trying to build an urban neighbourhood for all and that includes children to seniors, dogs (more dogs than children here), office workers, retailers, restaurants, clubs etc.. If everyone one of those groups just did what they wanted to without any sort of balance in mind, it doesn't work. Everyone has to compromise and I guarantee you, residents in King/Spadina and Wellington Place do their fair share.
If a developer wants to exceed their as-of rights and planning objectives, why should any City accept it if they don't contribute something back to the community? This project by RioCan/Allied/Diamond is being challenged by the proponents themselves and this community to do something special that would make a huge mark on Wellington Place. It's a big site and they are expecting to spend $1B. Perhaps they can go higher than the precedents set by the OMB, maybe, maybe not. It all depends on what they are willing to give the City and this community in return. The fact that the partners represent office, retail and residential components is a great start. They are not interested in building a "mini-Eaton Centre" or a mega-mall as you suggest. The aim is a true urban mixed use project and that is why they are touring Europe in the next couple of weeks to visit these type of successful developments and in some cases, re-developments. The Globe staff is not moving for three years out of their current location, so there's lots of time to plan.
gristle
Senior Member
No, I'm not in favour of a casino downtown. I have stated why already. A casino won't save downtown. Downtown doesn't need saving - particularly by way of a casino. I haven't seen what Allied/Riocan is planning, so why would you assume I would automatically support it or oppose it? Interesting that some developers (investing in the area) are voicing their opposition to the casino. That must be getting under your skin.
No kidding! That's why I live here. You don't. What's your excuse?
This remark is a bit non-sensical AG. Come downtown and look at the residential development. People are living here. It's unclear what you mean by "action," but as you've noted, there is fashion, sports, entertainment, theatre, clubs, restaurants, shopping and so on already established and growing, so your claim that the people (who are alive - in case you are unclear about that) are sucking the life out of the city is an assertion that makes absolutely no sense at all.
City-building doesn't revolve around your beliefs in uncontrolled development, desire for soopertalls and your unfettered desire for a casino.
Uncle Teddy
Senior Member
I think RioCan and company should only be allowed to build 2 story townhomes on their property. There's too much traffic down here already.
Xray_Crystal_Junkie
Senior Member
So you're trying to argue that there would be a different type of retail for each development with no overlap? That doesn't quite compute.
nopacnone
New Member
This block is currently the equivalent of a massive useless block of cement. Whatever goes here will be a blessing, even if it turns out average.
gristle
Senior Member
You haven't explained how it doesn't compute. Spend some time and look where the G&M lands are located. What's north, what's south. That should give you an indication of at least a portion of their retail effort. And no, there is no casino attraction attached.
Xray_Crystal_Junkie
Senior Member
I didn't even take a side (RioCan/Allied vs. Oxford) and you're still going on about the evil casino.
I was simply stating that RioCan/Allied are quite obviously lobbying against Oxford place because it competes with their project. You explain to me how ~1 million SF of planned retail at Oxford doesn't directly compete with the ~500K SF that these guys are planning two blocks away? We get it, you don't like the casino. And you're blindly jumping on RioCan's wagon as a result.
I was simply stating that RioCan/Allied are quite obviously lobbying against Oxford place because it competes with their project. You explain to me how ~1 million SF of planned retail at Oxford doesn't directly compete with the ~500K SF that these guys are planning two blocks away? We get it, you don't like the casino. And you're blindly jumping on RioCan's wagon as a result.
RC8
Senior Member
The situation only exemplifies the fact that investors and developers are less likely to bring their capital to this area if a casino gets built where proposed.
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