Toronto Five St Joseph | 160.93m | 48s | Five St. Joseph | Hariri Pontarini

Migos said:
How would a Councillor or anybody else know what type of retail a neighbourhood needs? The free market should be the only determinant of that.

If 10 restaurants and 1 dry cleaner can thrive, so be it. If 1 restaurant and 10 dry cleaners can thrive, so be it.
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That's what zoning does. No issue is left solely to the free market to determine, unclear why uses suddenly would be. Retail serves an important land use function. And nobody is suggesting that a Councillor should "dictate" the type of retail (it's ultimately up to Council, or the OMB on appeal). But when a developer is seeking amendments to the applicable planning instruments, it is valid for a municipality to consider the uses proposed for the site, and whether there are some uses that would have a negative impact. One very important principle of land use planning is that decisions are made in the public interest, not what is most profitable for the developer.
 
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Tuscani01 said:
The issue is that you cannot specify what type of retail is going into these units. Retail banking is classified the same as a clothing shop or convenience store.
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That's not true of most by-laws, and where it is, it needn't be. Zoning can, and does, distinguish between a bank and a retail store. Toronto's zoning typically does not heavily distinguish between different types of retail uses (unlike many 905 municipalities), but even it differentiates between a bank branch and other types of shops.

Tuscani01 said:
The onus is on the developer to select who will be filling the spaces (or the company they have hired to do the selection). The problem is that retailers aren't rushing to fill these spaces. People assume that there is a long list of retailers waiting to move in, but this is not the case. Sometimes, you have to take what you can get. Banks are one of the most stable tenants a landlord can get. Not great for street life, but when its one of a few options to choose from, you go for it.
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Of course, and that's why we have zoning. Ultimately, if left to their own devices, developers would always choose the use/tenant that provides the greatest long-term return, even if it results in adverse land use impacts. Thus, we control uses in zoning by-laws. If it impacts liveability and street life, municipalities can and do restrict uses. I am not saying that they should be overly prescriptive (e.g. hair salons okay, food stores okay, nail salons bad, dry cleaners bad, etc.), but if there are specific uses (e.g. bank branches) which are resulting in negative land use impacts, they do have the tools to control that (and not even necessarily by prohibiting the use entirely).

The concourse of Aura is one instance where I wish the city had been a little more proactive in considering the make-up of the retail and service commercial uses, not in the sense of imposing controls on uses, but rather whether ensuring a great range of sizes, and perhaps minimum size controls, might have better served the public interest.
 
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WiddleBittyKitty said:
Graywood/MOD should have insisted that RBC take one unit to use as a access to go up to the second level where the bank could have had as much as they wanted. Ground level should be store/store/store/store to animate the sidewalk..
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Did Graywood/MOD retain the retail units? If not, they wouldn't have any involvement in who they were leased to.

In any event, the Wickson Social opens on the St. Joseph side of the building soon. Maybe this week?
 
…which is a 130 seat bar and restaurant by the owners of popular spots The Queen & Beaver and The Oxley. Not sure of the opening date, but it's already running several months behind initial plans.

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Skeezix said:
From a first principles perspective, there is nothing stopping the city from, say, not allowing a bank as a permitted use in the site-specific zoning for a condo building. Like any planning issue, it is important to achieve an appropriate balance, and one certainly doesn't want to restrict the commercial uses to such a degree that leasing the space becomes difficult.

I'm not advocating that the City start dictating retail tenants. Even if they could, they shouldn't. But there are macro-level type controls where they can positively influence the retail make-up in an area. I think we will see more of this.
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In that case, I have to agree with you. There are definitely things the city can do to avoid all condo podiums being dominated by bank branches - the AURA example is horrible.
On the other hand, there is no difference between a McDonald's and a mom/pop noodle house, and developers should not discriminate one over the other no matter how much we dislike chains. As I emphasized, those small retail should exist on many of our side streets, adding vibrancy to the city. The city should facilitate that. In cities like Tokyo, even back alleys like our St Luke or St Nicolas or Okeef lane would all be filled with small restaurants. You would be amazed by how busy those places are, while the main drags are primarily larger retail. There is nothing wrong with that.
 
Just came back from Tokyo, wow its amazing there in terms of retail; I'd wager the best city in the world for use of alley way retail, its just everywhere, and alley ways lead to even more alley ways. Yea it'd be great to see that hear.

I don't see all the fuss about banks, RBC may close another location a result freeing that up for other types of retail ?
 
ksun said:
In that case, I have to agree with you. There are definitely things the city can do to avoid all condo podiums being dominated by bank branches - the AURA example is horrible.
On the other hand, there is no difference between a McDonald's and a mom/pop noodle house, and developers should not discriminate one over the other no matter how much we dislike chains. As I emphasized, those small retail should exist on many of our side streets, adding vibrancy to the city. The city should facilitate that. In cities like Tokyo, even back alleys like our St Luke or St Nicolas or Okeef lane would all be filled with small restaurants. You would be amazed by how busy those places are, while the main drags are primarily larger retail. There is nothing wrong with that.
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Well developers can discriminate - it's up to them to whom they lease - but I think you meant municipalities. If so, agreed. Planning is about uses, not users. If we don't like chains, or specific chains, we can vote with our dollars.
 
Looks like a pub is close to opening here.

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Another shot from my balcony.

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Perhaps the original post which somewhat hysterically exclaimed that the Royal Bank was taking four storefronts on Yonge should have mentioned that each of those storefronts was about 12' wide, and the total frontage is probably about the same as the heritage Bank of Commerce building at Massey Tower.
 
Miscreant said:
I like that east-facing shot too, though it shows how sorely the east of Yonge area needs development, in my view. Things sort of really taper off here.
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North of King st, downtown Toronto pretty much stops at Yonge st all of a sudden. Development is just stating to spread to Church st in the past couple of years (areas immediately adjacent to Bloor not included).
 
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