adma
Superstar
And for that matter, I'm concerned if this involves a convention-floor-type overcentralizing/internalizing of TIFF itself--to say nothing of being a damper on Yorkville as a star node...
Toronto Festival Tower and tiff Bell Lightbox | 156.96m | 42s | Daniels | KPMB
ProjectEnd
Superstar
Wow, thanks for that detailed response 42! Let's hope we can get at least a few of these other events. It will be interesting to see how the Lightbox cuts into Yorkville's cashcow as adma suggests.
Unfortunately TIFF has been migrating away from Yorkville for a few years now, at least as far as the general public is concerned.
At one time it was all Yorkville.
When I first started going as a young whippersnapper in 1991 (Grandpa Simpson voice) we used to call it the Festival of Festivals, and the fest inhabited the Uptown, the Showcase, the Varsity, the Cumberland, and the Bloor. Okay, galas were at the Elgin too. Anyway, over the years while cinemas closed and opened here and there, the fest dropped the Bloor and added the ROM, lost the Showcase and the Uptown and added an expanded Varsity and then the Isabel Bader, while galas moved to Roy Thomson Hall and the Elgin became the Visa Screening Room. Jackman Hall at the AGO took all of the artier Wavelengths programmes. Then the Ryerson Theatre opened its doors to us, and so did the Paramount, and the Al Green Theatre at the Bloor/Spadina JCC.
Industry and critics cried for more screenings, so they gradually took over all the daytime slots at the Varsity, and then the Cumberland too. Then Yonge Dundas AMC opened and last year we public viewers became pretty scarce up at Yorkville, skittering back and forth between RyeHigherson, Yonge Dundas, and Queen West mostly. Yorkville is a fading memory.
All of that said, it remains to be seen exactly what will happen once the Bell Lightbox opens. Five cinemas is not nearly enough to move the festival into one location - currently 38* are used - so no real internalizing can be accomplished in one spot. Will the festival just add more screenings, or drop one or more of the venues, or save the Lightbox for industry screenings only? (That likely won't happen - that'd be bad PR.) As much as I miss Yorkville (and I do) I can't wait to see films at the Lightbox.
42
* Varsity = 10, Cumberland = 4, ROM, Bader, Ryerson, AMC = 10 (not all are given to the fest), ParaScotiaMount = 6 (again, not all are given over), Elgin, Winter Garden, Roy Thomson, Al Green, Jackman: total is 38.
At one time it was all Yorkville.
When I first started going as a young whippersnapper in 1991 (Grandpa Simpson voice) we used to call it the Festival of Festivals, and the fest inhabited the Uptown, the Showcase, the Varsity, the Cumberland, and the Bloor. Okay, galas were at the Elgin too. Anyway, over the years while cinemas closed and opened here and there, the fest dropped the Bloor and added the ROM, lost the Showcase and the Uptown and added an expanded Varsity and then the Isabel Bader, while galas moved to Roy Thomson Hall and the Elgin became the Visa Screening Room. Jackman Hall at the AGO took all of the artier Wavelengths programmes. Then the Ryerson Theatre opened its doors to us, and so did the Paramount, and the Al Green Theatre at the Bloor/Spadina JCC.
Industry and critics cried for more screenings, so they gradually took over all the daytime slots at the Varsity, and then the Cumberland too. Then Yonge Dundas AMC opened and last year we public viewers became pretty scarce up at Yorkville, skittering back and forth between RyeHigherson, Yonge Dundas, and Queen West mostly. Yorkville is a fading memory.
All of that said, it remains to be seen exactly what will happen once the Bell Lightbox opens. Five cinemas is not nearly enough to move the festival into one location - currently 38* are used - so no real internalizing can be accomplished in one spot. Will the festival just add more screenings, or drop one or more of the venues, or save the Lightbox for industry screenings only? (That likely won't happen - that'd be bad PR.) As much as I miss Yorkville (and I do) I can't wait to see films at the Lightbox.
42
* Varsity = 10, Cumberland = 4, ROM, Bader, Ryerson, AMC = 10 (not all are given to the fest), ParaScotiaMount = 6 (again, not all are given over), Elgin, Winter Garden, Roy Thomson, Al Green, Jackman: total is 38.
Last edited:
alklay
Senior Member
And the theatres are way too small for the festival. The theatres are going to be most useful between festivals, not during.
Tewder
Senior Member
That was my thought too. I'm surprised the largest cinema is only 600 seats. That's barely 'broadway' size! Makes Lightbox an unlikely candidate for hosting the big gala events with the big names, so they will probably remain at RTH.
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
Back in my whippersnapper days the Festival of Festivals also used Yorkville area Towne Cinema (approx. 700 seats), The University (1550 seats) and one year they used the Plaza Cinemas which didn't work out well. The Plaza cinema disaster may have been in the late 80's early 90's.
DTTG: I suppose the first film I ever saw at the Festival was Chariots of Fire way back in 1981 as a one-off before I returned to really do it 10 years later, and that screening was at the Towne. I certainly missed the Plaza and University years at the festival, although I did see flicks at both theatres over the years.
Tewder and Alklay: While the cinemas at the Lightbox will not be amongst the largest used by the Festival, they will still be useful. There are 300 plus films shown every year, and not all of them appeal to large numbers of festival goers. Only 18 of those flicks will be galas, while another 2 dozen or so will get the Visa Screening Room treatment. Many will only play in smaller theatres, including series of shorts, and experimental films. Currently the Varsity VIP theatres are used (mostly for critic and industry screenings), and they're the same size as the smallest of the Lightbox's auditoria.
Here are the seat counts that I know for some of the venues the Fest uses or has used:
Isabel Bader 450
Cumberland 1 213 2 288 3 319 4 164
Elgin 1350
Jackman 199
Massey Hall 1350 (was only used for a couple of years, top balcony not sold)
Roy Thomson Hall 1950 (top balcony not sold)
ROM 312
Ryerson 1237
Varsity 1 204 2 226 3 235 4 161 5 126 6 125 7 138 8 580
...and the former Uptown 1 918 2 601 3 404
42
PS: can anyone add info re
aramount, or AMC seat counts?
Tewder and Alklay: While the cinemas at the Lightbox will not be amongst the largest used by the Festival, they will still be useful. There are 300 plus films shown every year, and not all of them appeal to large numbers of festival goers. Only 18 of those flicks will be galas, while another 2 dozen or so will get the Visa Screening Room treatment. Many will only play in smaller theatres, including series of shorts, and experimental films. Currently the Varsity VIP theatres are used (mostly for critic and industry screenings), and they're the same size as the smallest of the Lightbox's auditoria.
Here are the seat counts that I know for some of the venues the Fest uses or has used:
Isabel Bader 450
Cumberland 1 213 2 288 3 319 4 164
Elgin 1350
Jackman 199
Massey Hall 1350 (was only used for a couple of years, top balcony not sold)
Roy Thomson Hall 1950 (top balcony not sold)
ROM 312
Ryerson 1237
Varsity 1 204 2 226 3 235 4 161 5 126 6 125 7 138 8 580
...and the former Uptown 1 918 2 601 3 404
42
PS: can anyone add info re
aramount, or AMC seat counts?
Last edited:
khris
Senior Member
It would have made more sense for this building to be a host for the bigger screenings though, not the smaller ones. Very odd that the biggest is only a 600 seater.
Ramako
Moderator
Was the intent ever to have the festival consolidated in one location? I think that would be a real shame it ever were.
Observer Walt
Senior Member
Ramako, I doubt that would ever be the case. The building just doesn't have the capacity, as explained in the past several posts. In particular it would be able to handle only a limited number of the bigger draws.
I am wondering what will happen to Jackman Hall, at the AGO, if Cinematheque moves into the Lightbox. I'm not aware of too many events other than Cinematheque showings at this venue. I wonder if the AGO will simply close it and "repurpose" the space?
In spite of the migration away from Yorkville, to which Interchange alludes, I hope TIFF will continue to use the Isabel Bader Theatre, which I find is a comfortable and "right-sized" space.
I am wondering what will happen to Jackman Hall, at the AGO, if Cinematheque moves into the Lightbox. I'm not aware of too many events other than Cinematheque showings at this venue. I wonder if the AGO will simply close it and "repurpose" the space?
In spite of the migration away from Yorkville, to which Interchange alludes, I hope TIFF will continue to use the Isabel Bader Theatre, which I find is a comfortable and "right-sized" space.
barrytron3030
Active Member
i don't see what the fuss is about. as people have pointed out, the festival is too big be placed in one building or even one neighbourhood. and even if the festival could hypothetically fit entirely in the lightbox, who would want such a thing? i love how the festival jumps all over the city and transforms the streets.
quite frankly, 600 seats, while not eye-bulging, seizure-inducing, or imax-like, is still a large number of people. remember that giant, intimidating concrete wall along king street that many people on this forum are complaining about? that IS that 600-seat theater. could you imagine what this building would look like it it had one or even two 1000-seat theaters? i'd rather not. we'd probably have another scotiabank on our hands, or worse, the massive cineplex odeons that are found in the burbs, surrounded by 3000-seat parking lots.
i personally love small theaters and i'm glad to see lightbox will have many different sizes. downtown theaters are special precisely because of their size and charm. anyway, the main end of this building is to provide TIFF group with a legitimate, authoritative and permanent home. let's also not forget theworkshops and studios within this building. and, OH YA, that giant condo on top that will be generating lots and lots of money.
quite frankly, 600 seats, while not eye-bulging, seizure-inducing, or imax-like, is still a large number of people. remember that giant, intimidating concrete wall along king street that many people on this forum are complaining about? that IS that 600-seat theater. could you imagine what this building would look like it it had one or even two 1000-seat theaters? i'd rather not. we'd probably have another scotiabank on our hands, or worse, the massive cineplex odeons that are found in the burbs, surrounded by 3000-seat parking lots.
i personally love small theaters and i'm glad to see lightbox will have many different sizes. downtown theaters are special precisely because of their size and charm. anyway, the main end of this building is to provide TIFF group with a legitimate, authoritative and permanent home. let's also not forget theworkshops and studios within this building. and, OH YA, that giant condo on top that will be generating lots and lots of money.
Last edited:
jaborandi
Active Member
42
Don't forget OzFlix held in mid February each year - it's a real corka
Don't forget OzFlix held in mid February each year - it's a real corka
They need to be able to fill the cinemas on a regular basis though: TIFF would not want to end up with an expensive white elephant. In any case, 600 isn't that small; the Varsity 8, that complex's largest, holds 580, and it feels big enough for parties.
Good question. I know the Toronto Film Society has used Jackman Hall in the past. Now they're at Innis College. Maybe they'd go back.
In any case, the AGO does use Jackman Hall for their own seminars on occasion and maybe they'll start showing art films..
Yeah, Bader's a very comfortable venue.
Huh - I didn't know about it. Thanks Jabs!
42
khris
Senior Member
No I completely understand. Just I'm sure place likes the Elgin hold much more than 600 people.
In fact the Elgin, (as I've written above in the list of theatres and their seat counts), has 1350 seats.
I think everyone agrees (you included) that it is more fun to have the festival in multiple venues.
I'm looking forward to seeing what the Festival's own complex will bring to the filmgoing experience (what kind of ambiance will the cinemas have? will filmgoers easily be able to combine film viewing with exhibition visits to the new film galleries? will there be cheese-slathered nachos and hot dogs on offer at the concession stand? etc.), and more than that, what will programming be like in the complex during off-festival times. Finally, how will it all propel cinema-culture in Toronto over time?
42