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Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

Undead said:
"of the 3.2 million average weekday boardings pre-COVID:

• 24% make less than $40K
• 23% make more than $100K

Which supports my point about plenty of middle class people using the TTC.

Another notable stat from that report which complicates the vapid "poor TTC rider, evil car user" narrative:

• 32% of TTC users did not own a car (suggesting that a supermajority of TTC users do have access to a car)

I know these are pre-COVID stats, but they still illustrate the point.


I didn't say anything about the 510. The point is the vapid narrative Parkdalian was pushing.
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Noticed when TV news reports on traffic congestion, there is usually only ONE person in each automobile, SUV, or truck doing the complaining, only the driver. They ignore that they are the ones causing the congestion. Not a chauffeur driving a passenger.
 
Undead said:
From a 2023 TTC CEO report:

"of the 3.2 million average weekday boardings pre-COVID:

• 24% make less than $40K
• 23% make more than $100K

Which supports my point about plenty of middle class people using the TTC.
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I would argue that these stats actually prove my point, but I don't think we need to get into an argument about what constitutes "middle class" in Toronto. (40K barely pays for a 1 bedroom rental in Toronto...)

But I defer to your judgment. You are obviously correct. Signal priority is not a class-based issue. I look forward to all of the Scarborough city councillors proudly stepping up to support it on the Eglinton Crosstown, just as they have proudly supported sixplexes and homeless shelters in their neighbourhoods.
 
Parkdalian said:
I would argue that these stats actually prove my point, but I don't think we need to get into an argument about what constitutes "middle class" in Toronto. (40K barely pays for a 1 bedroom rental in Toronto...)
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I don't disagree. Our over the top property market makes small change out of a $100,000 salary, which is bonkers.

But we're using the stats/definitions as they're provided for us. If we start debating the definitions, it becomes even harder, if not entirely meaningless, to discuss the rest.

And even if we accept the worst case scenario i.e. a 100k+ income required to be middle class, this still means a significant number of TTC users are middle class.
Parkdalian said:
But I defer to your judgment. You are obviously correct. Signal priority is not a class-based issue. I look forward to all of the Scarborough city councillors proudly stepping up to support it on the Eglinton Crosstown, just as they have proudly supported sixplexes and homeless shelters in their neighbourhoods.
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Respectfully, this sentiment is exaggerated.

The reality is probably more that the same people will alternate between being stuck in the LRT as SUVs turn left; and being those same SUV drivers blocking the LRT.

edit: I could have been more measured in my choice of words, apologies for the heat.
 
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Northern Light said:
For the record, 'Jughandles' were originally proposed on Eglinton east of Victoria Park, and I'm one of the people who spiked that idea, because it creates a pedestrian-hostile environment.

See this post........ from 2008!

Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

What is the G-line? Brooklyn Queens Subway line.
toronto.skyrisecities.com toronto.skyrisecities.com

Jughandles were also proposed on the west extension at Martin Grove, prior to the current design iteration.

https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/upload/v1668610621/Images/Metrolinx/ECWE_EPR_2020_Addendum.pdf see p. 78
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Martin Grove would have been one of the few places where jughandles would have made good sense in Toronto
 
Steve X said:
They could simply move to a laggy left signal and let the “streetcar” through first.
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That does seem the obvious answer. Once the LRT is loaded and ready to proceed through the intersection the left turn signal is delayed until the LRT proceeds through. And in these cases, after the LRT has passed and in order to reduce bottlenecks, the left turn signal can be extended to compensate for the “delay” of the LRT.
 
Admiral Beez said:
I assume your question is disingenuous, intended as a dismissal rather than true inquiry, but both sides of Eglinton from Victoria Park onwards are slated to be torn down and residential development put in. Now's our chance to require those developments to include the roads to reduce left turns off Eglinton. I expect you may reply the contrarian, to tell us why this cannot, will not or should not be done, but so be it.
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"Considering the cost of my idea is a bad faith argument"

Do you think lands taken from developers by the city during redevelopment are free? What parks, public spaces and infrastructure upgrades should *not* occur, so you can build two dozen jug handles?

Do you think the drastic widening of every single major intersection along an arterial would not increase operational costs?

Do you think the mass drop off in taxable private square footage with the handover of private land to the public would not occur and harm already skint city revenues?

For lots left un-appropriated, would their drop in value brought on by the fact they are now wrapped in blighting highway infrastructure not impact city tax roll returns on the transit project we just spent billions of dollars on?

Lastly, I would absolutely love to see you provide examples of even just a few attractive, urban boulevards with street running transit that have their street wall broken up at every intersection by a 10,000 sf jug handle. I'll save you some time, you won't, because it is akin to pushing two magnets together.
 
cplchanb said:
well today is the purported start of the FRD.... hopefully this is the beginning of the end of this dreaded wait... 🫥 🤞
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Yes, but... how long has it been since they started the first test runs of trains on the line?
I did a quick look at back pages of this thread, to try to find the first pictures of trains seen running. It's possible the answer is at the bottom of page 1300.
 
Does RFD just mean the schedule that they'll likely have on a normal day?

I was on Eglinton for a few hours a couple of days ago and saw trains every 4 - 5 minutes in the morning, so just trying to figure out the difference
 
cplchanb said:
The full revenue demonstration...
Apparently from a few pages back it was projected to start today iirc
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If true, the timeline does line up to concluding revenue demonstration in September so that substantial completion can be declared by the end of the month (per Mike Lindsay's comments).
 
Admiral Beez said:
That does seem the obvious answer. Once the LRT is loaded and ready to proceed through the intersection the left turn signal is delayed until the LRT proceeds through. And in these cases, after the LRT has passed and in order to reduce bottlenecks, the left turn signal can be extended to compensate for the “delay” of the LRT.
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Most of the surface Eglinton LRT will be far-side platforms. They should be able proceed through the intersection to the loading platform on the far-side. Unless Toronto Transportation Services does what it does now, and give priority to the single-occupant SUV turning left first.

Just like with the St. Clair, Spadina, and The Queensway streetcars, unfortunately. One of the reasons why Toronto has the slowest streetcar/tram network in the world.
 
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