Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[T3G]

Well that's what you get when you let naive design architects with their utopian dreamworlds take hold of the project instead of utilizing construction architects who understand the real world

Sorry, who is in charge of the project? If Metrolinx didn't want "utopian dreamworld" design, they could've rejected it and gone with another. This is entirely on them. We aren't living in the Soviet Union, where transit operators were told to take what was available and that was it.

 

[northyorker1]

Sorry, who is in charge of the project? If Metrolinx didn't want "utopian dreamworld" design, they could've rejected it and gone with another. This is entirely on them. We aren't living in the Soviet Union, where transit operators were told to take what was available and that was it.

To set the record straight, transit stations in the Soviet Union were some of the most beautiful in the world (still are, actually).

 

[T3G]

To set the record straight, transit stations in the Soviet Union were some of the most beautiful in the world (still are, actually).

Perhaps they were, but the general rule was exactly as I said, if you wanted something different than what was available then you were SOL.

The example I was going for was the Tatra T3, which is the most numerous tram car ever built, with over 14000 pieces built from 1960-1989. It also happens that it underwent no technological innovation in that time period, despite many transit agencies in the Eastern Bloc wanting something that was more energy efficient rather than the vehicle's former control system, based off the PCC design. If they wanted more energy efficient equipment, they would have to procure it and install it themselves, sometimes in brand new tram cars fresh from the factory.

It sounds to me like this is what "cplchanb" is insinuating is the case, that Metrolinx appear to have had no recourse against architects with pie in the sky fantasies. Which is, of course, bunk. Don't blame the architects, blame Metrolinx for not being able to properly spec their project.

 

[cplchanb]

Perhaps they were, but the general rule was exactly as I said, if you wanted something different than what was available then you were SOL.

The example I was going for was the Tatra T3, which is the most numerous tram car ever built, with over 14000 pieces built from 1960-1989. It also happens that it underwent no technological innovation in that time period, despite many transit agencies in the Eastern Bloc wanting something that was more energy efficient rather than the vehicle's former control system, based off the PCC design. If they wanted more energy efficient equipment, they would have to procure it and install it themselves, sometimes in brand new tram cars fresh from the factory.

It sounds to me like this is what "cplchanb" is insinuating is the case, that Metrolinx appear to have had no recourse against architects with pie in the sky fantasies. Which is, of course, bunk. Don't blame the architects, blame Metrolinx for not being able to properly spec their project.

well this was MLs first big project and they were very naive to the complexities of it including decision making. Its the architects job to showcase and sell with as much grandeur as possible to fit the constraints of the project. Ive worked with many developers whove fallen into that trap with these architects and interior designers. while it is the job of ML to spec the right stuff the onus is also on the consultants to be able to provide something that is reasonable and practical that is easy to construct and maintain.

 

[crs1026]

Wouldn't be the first time that a transit agency was encouraged to design eyecatching architecture that exceeeded actual need (cough TYSSE cough)

ML has always had an ivory tower faction that yearned for "world class" solutions and pursued International Design Competitions as opposed to settling for competent, functional, utilitarian, economical design.

PS - Vitrolite stations only really became popular after they became 'retro'. Until then, Line 1 was criticised as "bathroom architecture". I'm not sure the Brutalist styling of the SRT was all that timeless, either. It will be interesting to see if the Crosstown designs hold up, or not.

- Paul

 

[T3G]

well this was MLs first big project and they were very naive to the complexities of it including decision making. Its the architects job to showcase and sell with as much grandeur as possible to fit the constraints of the project. Ive worked with many developers whove fallen into that trap with these architects and interior designers. while it is the job of ML to spec the right stuff the onus is also on the consultants to be able to provide something that is reasonable and practical that is easy to construct and maintain.

The architect's job isn't to know what is and isn't within Metrolinx's abilities to maintain properly. How can they? They're architects, they're not running a transit agency. This is not to defend architects generally as I find many modern architects seem to lack any sense of aesthetic value and our public realm suffers for it, but some blame placed at the feet of the people whose job it is to manage every aspect of the project would be welcome.

If ML were naive to the complexities of the project, then surely you can work up some forgiveness in your heart for the general way they've bungled the project, no?

 

[crs1026]

The architect's job isn't to know what is and isn't within Metrolinx's abilities to maintain properly. How can they? They're architects, they're not running a transit agency. This is not to defend architects generally as I find many modern architects seem to lack any sense of aesthetic value and our public realm suffers for it, but some blame placed at the feet of the people whose job it is to manage every aspect of the project would be welcome.

If ML were naive to the complexities of the project, then surely you can work up some forgiveness in your heart for the general way they've bungled the project, no?

I don't have a position on the architecture per se, but there are ample examples where recent stations have been designed without asking "the person with the mop" what they think. Pillars placed so it's impossible to sweep out the corner recesses, pot lights over deep voids that will be challenging to change bulbs without scaffolding, that kind of thing. Those aspects have far more impact on how the stations look after 20 years than the massing, materials, colours, etc.

The biggest detriment on Lines 1 and 2 imho, is the amount of retrofitting especially conduit. I don't think we can blame the 1960s designer for failing to predict the need for wifi, cellular, or radio cables along the platforms.... or today's standards for wayfinding and advertising. The stations have certainly lost their clean lines.

I will say, the Crosstown stations do appear to give much more consideration to natural light than previous projects. That has to be a step forward. I do hope that people get sick of white and grey for walls, and the current trend for rigid perpendiculars and certain wood finishes. But that's just my tastes, and I have never taken a design or architecture course in my life.

- Paul

 

[bono47]

Doug Ford gives clearest hint yet of early Ontario election, points finger at Trump, tariffs | Globalnews.ca

Ford said if tariffs hit Canadian goods, it could mean the provincial government needs to spend billions to stimulate the economy.

globalnews.ca

FWIW in the past its been rumoured that Ford wouldn't call an election until an Eglinton opening date had been announced, now of course that was prior to the talk around tariffs having ramped up.

It seems less likely with each passing week that Verster's comment of an early Q1/25 announcement is going to come to fruition.

 

[Aplus23]

Whatever they were doing at the Sloan stop seems to be wrapped up if I'm not mistaken

 

[ShonTron]

The Yonge Subway will be closed between St. Clair and York Mills Station on Saturday for Crosstown LRT construction.

What, exactly, needs to be done now at Line 1 level is beyond me.

 

[cplchanb]

The Yonge Subway will be closed between St. Clair and York Mills Station on Saturday for Crosstown LRT construction.

What, exactly, needs to be done now at Line 1 level is beyond me.

comon they need to go through the charades and motions just to justify them still not announcing an opening date....

 

[T3G]

Do you honestly believe, in your heart of hearts, that the only reason Line 1 is being closed is so that they can pretend that they're still doing on works on the Crosstown?

Really? No other reasons?

Please spare us your endless array of Crosstown conspiracies, they are getting quite tiresome to read.

 

[cplchanb]

Do you honestly believe, in your heart of hearts, that the only reason Line 1 is being closed is so that they can pretend that they're still doing on works on the Crosstown?

Really? No other reasons?

Please spare us your endless array of Crosstown conspiracies, they are getting quite tiresome to read.

You're definitely not fun at parties

How about you offer us some reasonable reasons then?

 

[T3G]

Why should I offer those reasons? You are the one alleging that they have no legitimate need for the closure, and they're just doing it to pull the wool over our eyes, so the onus should be on you to prove it.

You can't, of course, because it's conspiratorial nonsense. If I am not fun at parties because I want to open this thread and read facts instead of your posts, so be it.

 

[cplchanb]

Why should I offer those reasons? You are the one alleging that they have no legitimate need for the closure, and they're just doing it to pull the wool over our eyes, so the onus should be on you to prove it.

You can't, of course, because it's conspiratorial nonsense. If I am not fun at parties because I want to open this thread and read facts instead of your posts, so be it.

Geez you're taking a statement made in jest way too seriously. No need to be butthurt like a transit foamer