Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Yonge and Major Mac would be a great terminus for the Yonge extension. It would allow for the development of the Hillcrest Mall lands and that plaza across the street. A VIVA BRT linking the two lines (Yonge and Spadina) via Major Mac would probably be busy early on and would allow Richmond HIll to develop a true downtown like Markham, Vaughan and MCC.

That trip, although one seat, would be over an hour, when you could drive that in 35 minutes.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

They wouldn't be 'ignored,' they'd be within a 5-10m bus ride of two rapid transit stations. Compared to the status quo of having to bus to Y/Eg or Pape that's a huge improvement.

Serving Flemingdon directly would add hundreds of millions to the cost of the project. If you divide that over the small number of riders who would benefit from it, it's an extremely expensive proposition.

Having reviewed the DRTES, Flemingdon Station is expected to attract 500 boardings and 100 exits in AM peak hour. That gives it less than half the ridership of the next smallest station (Thorncliffe) and would make it one of the least well used stations on the TTC. I personally don't think it's worth adding capital costs (longer route, more stations, more difficult to run at grade) and slowing down other trips (worse transfer, slower speed) to serve such a small rider base. These people would still befit hugely from Don Mills and Thorncliffe stations being short bus rides away, to.

Can you back this up?

Not that I don't trust you but I'm shocked it would be that low considering how many massive apartment complexes are in the area and the significant population of low-income new immigrants that live there who you would think would be most likely to commute by public transit.



As for where the DRL should end, I'm kinda hoping for Lawrence/Don Mills, or at least an extension to Lawrence be planned soon after completion of the DRL.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Why Lawrence and Don Mills? That's such a random place to end it. For this extension to have any significant value it needs to go to at least Sheppard or Finch.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Can you back this up?

Not that I don't trust you but I'm shocked it would be that low considering how many massive apartment complexes are in the area and the significant population of low-income new immigrants that live there who you would think would be most likely to commute by public transit.



As for where the DRL should end, I'm kinda hoping for Lawrence/Don Mills, or at least an extension to Lawrence be planned soon after completion of the DRL.

Why Lawrence and Don Mills? That's such a random place to end it. For this extension to have any significant value it needs to go to at least Sheppard or Finch.

Don Mills and Steeles. Let's get this done right the first time.

 

[Adjei]

There is nothing at Don Mills and Steeles, it's just a random place to end a subway line.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I say Lawrence and Don Mills because of the great things happening at the intersection there, what with the new and excellent Shops at Don Mills and the numerous condos being built in the surrounding area.

It has easily become my favorite area of Toronto outside of downtown and Y+E. Perhaps it is a pipe dream on my part to extend it there but besides connecting the plentiful retail and new condos to the line it does serve as a terminus for the 54 Lawrence bus and leaves heavy precedent for a future extension to Sheppard and beyond.

 

[diminutive]

Can you back this up?

Yes, of course. Here's the relevant info:

Not that I don't trust you but I'm shocked it would be that low considering how many massive apartment complexes are in the area and the significant population of low-income new immigrants that live there who you would think would be most likely to commute by public transit.

Nowhere, nowhere, in Toronto can justify rapid transit without feeder routes. Comparing densities around stations is pretty meaningless since, in most cases, walk in ridership represents a very small fraction of ridership.

Flemingdon is impossible to generate feeder ridership to. The only ways to access it would intersect with Don Mills Station or Thorncliffe Station before.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

There is nothing at Don Mills and Steeles, it's just a random place to end a subway line.

Exactly. But it covers street.

 

[skylyte]

I say Lawrence and Don Mills because of the great things happening at the intersection there, what with the new and excellent Shops at Don Mills and the numerous condos being built in the surrounding area.

It has easily become my favorite area of Toronto outside of downtown and Y+E. Perhaps it is a pipe dream on my part to extend it there but besides connecting the plentiful retail and new condos to the line it does serve as a terminus for the 54 Lawrence bus and leaves heavy precedent for a future extension to Sheppard and beyond.

This also has the potential to be an away-from-downtown "carriage trade" district, like Bel Air or Beverly Hills does for LA. I can foresee a DRL sparking a bigger redevelopment of the Don Mills area from the Celestica all the way up to Fairview Mall, should the line terminate there. It would be a great link to the nearby Bridle Path.

The areas from Donway along Lawrence East to say Victoria Park are brimming with potential. What's needed is that freight rail track to be bought by Metrolink to make a truly transit friendly environment. People living in Scarborough west of the futre GO/current RT and the future McCowan Scarborough Subway would have two lines taking them downtown and to points north.

 

[BurlOak]

Yes, of course. Here's the relevant info:

What if the SRT was connected to an elevated Eglinton line? How many riders would then take Eglinton to the DRL, instead of B-D to Pape? Maybe those two dots could be made the same size or maybe even the Eglinton/Don Mills station would have slightly more transfers.

By not building the Eglinton line grade-separated, some of the justification for the DRL to Eglinton is removed. And having the DRL going only to Pape makes it appear to benefit only the downtown, so it will be difficult to gain support.

The best way to get the DRL is to first build Eglinton Grade separated, then to show an extension to at least Seneca College, maybe even highway 7 to gain more widespread political support. Of course it can't be built all at once, so the first phase would be to Eglinton (maybe with staggered openings to Pape and then to Eglinton).

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

What if the SRT was connected to an elevated Eglinton line? How many riders would then take Eglinton to the DRL, instead of B-D to Pape? Maybe those two dots could be made the same size or maybe even the Eglinton/Don Mills station would have slightly more transfers.

By not building the Eglinton line grade-separated, some of the justification for the DRL to Eglinton is removed. And having the DRL going only to Pape makes it appear to benefit only the downtown, so it will be difficult to gain support.

The best way to get the DRL is to first build Eglinton Grade separated, then to show an extension to at least Seneca College, maybe even highway 7 to gain more widespread political support. Of course it can't be built all at once, so the first phase would be to Eglinton (maybe with staggered openings to Pape and then to Eglinton).

To be honest I think the Bloor Danforth extension might go up to McCowan/7 too.

 

[DKsan]

That trip, although one seat, would be over an hour, when you could drive that in 35 minutes.

That's assuming, like all the talk of the 905 using the GO lines, that everyone is heading downtown to Union. If you're heading to say...some mid-point, like Yonge and Eglinton, or Yonge and Sheppard or Wellesley, then GO is completely useless (and driving pretty much is too).

 

[BurlOak]

I think that the DRL tunnel along Eglinton from ET Seton Park to Don Mills will be very steep to make it up the ravine from below the riverbed of the Don into the station at Don Mills. Either that, or we have to completely reconfigure the planned Crosstown station box to be, itself, very deep to accommodate the DRL. Of course, this means that the Ferrand stop will have to be axed (not altogether a bad thing) and the Crosstown portal would emerge somewhere near Wynford.

Honestly, having a Lionel-Groulx setup sounds good on the forum, but I think it will be a difficult engineering project that will add considerably to both the DRL and the Crosstown's cost and time spent in construction. For a cross-platform transfer, we lose a stop at Flemingdon Park, a stop at Ferrand, a comparatively easier tunneling job under Don Mills and the ability to extend the DRL up Don Mills for the foreseeable future. If it's a 'victory', then it's a Battle of the Somme kind of victory.

Metrolinx and TTC are telling us that ridership on this corridor is so low that in-median LRT on either side of Don Mills will be adequate for the foreseeable future. Then we have UT posters say that it should be a Lionel-Groulx cross platform transfer to allow for capacity greater then any other interchange in the TTC network.

The best we can hope for at this point is to have the ECLRT move to the south side at Leslie. Then the DRL interchange station at Don Mills can be built together with the ECLRT.

It seems that so much of the DRL future depends on Eglinton being built correctly. After years of lobbying by UT members, we are still no closer to a grade-separated line to Don Mills. It would appear that the number one transit priority in Toronto is to build an LRT in the median through Leslie. Everything else can be changed, but this segment must remain in the median.

PS. We need to get away from this idea of always tunnelling. Rapid Transit must be grade-separated, and the order of preference should be; separate (rail or hydro) corridor, elevated, cut-and-cover, tunnelled.

 

[andrewpmk]

Yes, of course. Here's the relevant info:

Why is the ridership at Don Mills and Eglinton so low in that model? Does it pretend that the Eglinton LRT does not exist? Does it completely ignore feeder buses or something? I would think that the Eglinton LRT, and buses 25, 54 and 100 alone would produce far more ridership than that model suggests, never mind walk in traffic.

 

[Johnny Au]

Why is the ridership at Don Mills and Eglinton so low in that model? Does it pretend that the Eglinton LRT does not exist? Does it completely ignore feeder buses or something? I would think that the Eglinton LRT, and buses 25, 54 and 100 alone would produce far more ridership than that model suggests, never mind walk in traffic.

...or how busy the Science Centre is?