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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

denfromoakvillemilton said:
The Don Mills LRT has been dead for 4 years. It's not coming back. Let me repeat, the Don Mills LRT is dead. Jane might get its LRT or a subway, but I don't see the need of a subway. with Keele and Finch having a subway stop.
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What do you mean it's dead? Metrolinx confirmed that it's in the 15-year timeframe of the Big Move earlier this year.
 
Johnny Au said:
...or how busy the Science Centre is?
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The Science Center is not a big trip generator. In morning rush hour the vast majority of traffic at Don Mills/Eglinton would be transferring from buses or the Eglinton LRT. It seems like this model must be outdated and pretend that the Eglinton LRT does not exist, producing a meaninglessly low number.
 
andrewpmk said:
Why is the ridership at Don Mills and Eglinton so low in that model?
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3,600 passengers in the peak hour is low? We have stations that don't see that many passengers in an entire hour.

Though, if it is low, then one reason is that if you look at their network, they have the Eglinton line intersecting with the Richmond Hill GO Train just east of the DVP. I expect the model has many of the riders you'd expect to change to the DRL, changing to GO instead - which then intersects the DRL again at River station. I expect if you eliminate that short-cut, then the DRL ridership would be higher.
 
Johnny Au said:
...or how busy the Science Centre is?
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The Science Centre would generate very little peak-hour (and it's AM that's shown) traffic.

The Flemingdon stop might well be the smallest - at 600 per hour, you'd be looking at 3,600 or so per day. I wonder if it means the station location should be reviewed. The proposed location, in front of the shopping centre, may not be the best spot. I bet it would generate more traffic at Gateway and Grenoble ... and also then allow connection with an intersecting local bus.

Still though, perhaps it does suggest that station isn't necessary ... and maybe the line should come in from the west ... perhaps allow for future development on the industrial lands in the Wickstead/Beth Nealson area.

Personally I'd like to see the subway extend one stop futher to Wynford and Concord ... or perhaps Wynford and the DVP.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
And why would they force a transfer at Don Mills Eglinton. That has to be a subway to Finch or Steeles.
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Why? Look at the ridership estimates, north of Eglinton. They were barely in the LRT range, let alone subway.

Obviously your not going to be building subway on Don Mills all the way to Steeles for a few decades!

I'm sure you've noticed how much emptier (and faster) the 25 bus is as soon as you cross north of Eglinton. (not to mention of how many other buses you have south of Eglinton).
 
nfitz said:
The Science Centre would generate very little peak-hour (and it's AM that's shown) traffic.

The Flemingdon stop might well be the smallest - at 600 per hour, you'd be looking at 3,600 or so per day. I wonder if it means the station location should be reviewed. The proposed location, in front of the shopping centre, may not be the best spot. I bet it would generate more traffic at Gateway and Grenoble ... and also then allow connection with an intersecting local bus.

Still though, perhaps it does suggest that station isn't necessary ... and maybe the line should come in from the west ... perhaps allow for future development on the industrial lands in the Wickstead/Beth Nealson area.

Personally I'd like to see the subway extend one stop futher to Wynford and Concord ... or perhaps Wynford and the DVP.
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Don't you think the subway should go further then that? To Don Mills and Finch!
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Don't you think the subway should go further then that? To Don Mills and Finch!
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Not based on the traffic ridership forecast on that corridor in the Don Mills study.

And not based on the years I spent riding the 25 bus north from Danforth to York Mills. There's relatively much lower demand anddensity north of Wynford, and even less north of Lawrence. I might be tempted to push the subway to Lawrence, and then use LRT up to Highway 7. In 40-50 years perhaps there'd be a case for expanding the subway.
 
nfitz said:
Not based on the traffic ridership forecast on that corridor in the Don Mills study.

And not based on the years I spent riding the 25 bus north from Danforth to York Mills. There's relatively much lower demand anddensity north of Wynford, and even less north of Lawrence. I might be tempted to push the subway to Lawrence, and then use LRT up to Highway 7. In 40-50 years perhaps there'd be a case for expanding the subway.
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But this could peel off ridership from the Yonge Line. We have to think about the entire area, not just the street it's self.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
But this could peel off ridership from the Yonge Line. We have to think about the entire area, not just the street it's self.
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A beefed up Richmond Hill line (5 minute frequencies, stops at most major streets, straighten the track, etc.) would serve the same purpose for a fraction of the cost.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
This line is supposed to relive yonge
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Only if it goes all the way to Eglinton... Even then, the trains are usually full by Sheppard-Yonge at peak hours. Sometime looking beyond numbers is a form of intelligence as well and just a little bit of observation would show how valuable the DRL would be if it went all the way to Finch
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
But this could peel off ridership from the Yonge Line. We have to think about the entire area, not just the street it's self.
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A bit perhaps ... but I'd think it would have most if it's effect if it reaches Eglinton. An LRT might well be more effective north of Eglinton, as by then the subway stop spacing would be so wide, that a lot of people would still have to figure out how to get to the subway. The travel time from Sheppard to Eglinton on the LRT would be still very fast, and would likely result in trips downtown using the Don Mills LRT and DRL that are faster than using the Sheppard subway and Yonge subway.

Currently Sheppard/Don Mills to King station on the subway is 36 minutes (well, it's a lot worse than that, with the current overcrowding, and the slow order through Davisville, etc. - but let's pretend that they fix it all).

The DRL report estimates 20.5 minutes from Eglinton/Don Mills to King station (using the velocities on Table 2-4, and the distances associates with Exhibit 2-4). Let's assume 2.5 minutes to change from the Don Mills LRT to subway at Don Mills/Eglinton station. To match the travel time of 36 minutes on the subway, you'd have to get from Sheppard/Don Mills to Eglinton/Don Mills in 13 minutes.

The distance from Sheppard/Don Mills to Eglinton/Don Mills is 6.2 km. To travel 6.2 km in 13 minutes, you'd have to do 28.6 km/hour. Which is about what you'd expect from LRT up there.

So pretty much a tie for those right at Don Mills station. But that's a deep station, and it's a good walk for anyone to get to. I bet someone living right on the corner of Don Mills and Sheppard would be onto a surface LRT faster than getting into the subway. And those living at Don Mills/Parkway Forest on near the Peanut would be far better off on the LRT.

Sure, the subway would help some more ... but at what cost.

Still, best not to eliminate these things out-of-hand. There's no reason the demand shouldn't be modelled, to see what would likely happen.
 
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