Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[44 North]

Incidentally I doubt that many condo residents will use this stop anyway as they mostly drive. The bus stops (both directions) on Leslie near the condos and park entrance never have more than a couple of people at them ever. Robinson pushed it so she could claim in her 2014 re-election bid that she was fighting for her constituents while it cost her nothing. The massive inconvenience to Leasiders of having Eglinton restricted by the TBM launch shaft and who receive no benefit from the Leslie stop does not matter to Robinson as she doesn't represent Leaside. It was a politically savvy move by Robinson; subtle but led to a poor outcome. Had the launch shaft been built in the Science Centre north lot at Don Mills it would have made a lot more sense.

Had they not added a surface stop at Leslie, are you saying the original plan was to have the launch shaft at Don Mills instead of Brentcliffe? I was under the impression this section was always to be at/above grade.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Oh come on. Very few people use public transit to access a park like Sunnybrook. The locals walk there, cyclists cycle there and people going to special events at the stables or sports fields generally drive there. The Leslie stop was kept because a very small but loud group of YIMBY's from the few condos on Leslie (just north of Toyota/Lexus on the Park) got their Councillor Jaye Robinson to fight for it. She took up the charge even though it's only a very small sliver of her ward that dips down on Leslie and touches Eglinton where these condos and the stop will be. Inexplicably the Leaside Property Owners Association jumped on board and supported Robinson and the condo owners even though neither the condos nor the stop are in Leaside. Perhaps because some of the condo residents are former Leaside residents, I don't know. The LPOA's involvement led to the erroneous press reports of "Leasiders fight to save their Leslie stop" which of course was pure dung. No one in Leaside would ever walk down the hill/up the hill on Eglinton to use the Leslie stop, especially in bad weather. Even from the easternmost edge of Leaside it is a closer walk to Laird station than Leslie and with no hill.

Incidentally I doubt that many condo residents will use this stop anyway as they mostly drive. The bus stops (both directions) on Leslie near the condos and park entrance never have more than a couple of people at them ever. Robinson pushed it so she could claim in her 2014 re-election bid that she was fighting for her constituents while it cost her nothing. The massive inconvenience to Leasiders of having Eglinton restricted by the TBM launch shaft and who receive no benefit from the Leslie stop does not matter to Robinson as she doesn't represent Leaside. It was a politically savvy move by Robinson; subtle but led to a poor outcome. Had the launch shaft been built in the Science Centre north lot at Don Mills it would have made a lot more sense.

Now, the condo dwellers will still have to walk about 300m down (and up) Leslie to wait in the open air Leslie stop. Or the few who use transit at all could get on the bus at their front door (as they do now) and take it directly to Laird Station and wait underground for LRT or alternatively stay on board the bus and go directly to Line 2 at Donlands station or go north to Line 4 at Leslie subway station at Sheppard.

Hey, I am not disputing any of that! It is a dumb stop, and its addition was the primary reason why we lost the much superior south-side alignment between Laird and Don Mills. Those condo YIMBY's on Leslie and the LPOA essentially fought in favour for the inconvenience of having LRT vehicles interrupt their left turns at Leslie&Eglinton.

But the station is here now and that whole debate is over. I echo what @nfitz said. Though, I am not opposed to a "Leslie On-The-Park" name, that could actually be a good compromise.

 

[nfitz]

Had they not added a surface stop at Leslie, are you saying the original plan was to have the launch shaft at Don Mills instead of Brentcliffe? I was under the impression this section was always to be at/above grade.

The current plan is the original plan. However the very last iteration was an attempt to modify the EA to move the launch location from west of Leslie to just north of the Science Centre parking lot, and eliminate the Leslie stop. However the outcry from the community made it clear that the EA process wouldn't be simple, so they reverted to the original plan, despite the current launch location being more complex than originally anticipated.

See http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...fight_to_put_leslie_stop_back_on_the_map.html

 

[Ozman]

Had they not added a surface stop at Leslie, are you saying the original plan was to have the launch shaft at Don Mills instead of Brentcliffe? I was under the impression this section was always to be at/above grade.

It was originally to be above grade, then (I believe in late 2012) Metrolinx proposed tunnelling from Don Mills (under the Don River) so that it could be grade separated all the way from Mount Dennis to Don Mills which is a major hub. If they were to keep the Leslie stop it would now have to a full underground station and they said the low ridership numbers couldn't justify the $100 million plus for a full station so they proposed eliminating Leslie and having no stops between Laird and Don Mills which was always to be underground. Metrolinx got too cute by half though, and tried to sell the change at public meetings as being necessary because they COULDN'T build the launch shaft at Brentcliffe. They said it was too narrow and to close to Scenic condos south of Eglinton and digging might disrupt the condos' foundations. Of course, as we've seen, that is pure bull as they have built the launch shaft there but perhaps it took longer in order to protect the slope from collapsing. Metrolinx needed the public meetings because the proposed change would need an EA amendment. They thought they could just slide it through quickly and they'd be away. The Leslie condo YIMBY's fought loud and hard (all 12 of them) and with LPOA's and especially Robinson's voices they put up such a stink that Metrolinx said they couldn't wait any more. In spring 2013 they reverted to the original plan. By not being honest, Metrolinx lost all credibility and so therefore lost the chance to build a much superior tunnel to Don Mills. At one of the few meetings where actual engineers attended, a Metrolinx engineer told me he was disgusted that they weren't launching at Don Mills. It would have created much less chaos on Eglinton between Leslie and Brentcliffe, would have been easier to build as there is a lot more room for a shaft at the Science Centre lot and in the long run would have created a much better LRT line with full grade separation through to Don Mills (and maybe someday a relief line interchange there).

Because of headway differences between the in-median and underground portions of the LRT, every second train will short-turn at Laird even though it won't have near the riders that Don Mills will. Ironically, the Leslie condo dwellers will probably be far better off bussing to Laird station with twice the frequency of trains then waiting twice as long, after a longer walk, in the elements, for a train at their hard-won Leslie stop.

Ridiculous.

 

[Rainforest]

At one of the few meetings where actual engineers attended, a Metrolinx engineer told me he was disgusted that they weren't launching at Don Mills. It would have created much less chaos on Eglinton between Leslie and Brentcliffe, would have been easier to build as there is a lot more room for a shaft at the Science Centre lot and in the long run would have created a much better LRT line with full grade separation through to Don Mills (and maybe someday a relief line interchange there).

It is quite unfortunate that they missed the oppurtunity to build a fully grade-separate line all the way to Don Mills. Local interests tramped the interests of the city-wide network.

But, I guess this ship has sailed.

Because of headway differences between the in-median and underground portions of the LRT, every second train will short-turn at Laird even though it won't have near the riders that Don Mills will. Ironically, the Leslie condo dwellers will probably be far better off bussing to Laird station with twice the frequency of trains then waiting twice as long, after a longer walk, in the elements, for a train at their hard-won Leslie stop.

Ridiculous.

I am not sure if they will even run a short-turn branch. If they do so, it will be for the benefit of Eglinton West (Mt Dennis to Yonge will have high demand), but of little use for Eglinton East even if high demand exists between Don Mills and Yonge.

Let's hope that DRL East makes it all the way to Eglinton soon enough, to divert part of the deman and avoid capacity issues on Eglinton East.

 

[44 North]

Ah yes. Does anyone know if Mlinx gave any other info about canceling this proposed addendum? Perhaps on the technical side, like any difficulties of tunneling under the Don?

As well, I think meeting the residents halfway with proposing a hollowed-out station shell could've been a good alternative. It's clear that the density and land use doesn't really justify an underground station in the near-mid term. But the potential of a future station along the CP corridor may've been enough justification for a future Crosstown underground station carved out south of the Leslie/Eglinton intersection. Though I guess the costs and complexity of building just a station box would've detracted from the benefits of this addendum.

 

[salsa]

It was originally to be above grade, then (I believe in late 2012) Metrolinx proposed tunnelling from Don Mills (under the Don River) so that it could be grade separated all the way from Mount Dennis to Don Mills which is a major hub. If they were to keep the Leslie stop it would now have to a full underground station and they said the low ridership numbers couldn't justify the $100 million plus for a full station so they proposed eliminating Leslie and having no stops between Laird and Don Mills which was always to be underground. Metrolinx got too cute by half though, and tried to sell the change at public meetings as being necessary because they COULDN'T build the launch shaft at Brentcliffe. They said it was too narrow and to close to Scenic condos south of Eglinton and digging might disrupt the condos' foundations. Of course, as we've seen, that is pure bull as they have built the launch shaft there but perhaps it took longer in order to protect the slope from collapsing. Metrolinx needed the public meetings because the proposed change would need an EA amendment. They thought they could just slide it through quickly and they'd be away. The Leslie condo YIMBY's fought loud and hard (all 12 of them) and with LPOA's and especially Robinson's voices they put up such a stink that Metrolinx said they couldn't wait any more. In spring 2013 they reverted to the original plan. By not being honest, Metrolinx lost all credibility and so therefore lost the chance to build a much superior tunnel to Don Mills. At one of the few meetings where actual engineers attended, a Metrolinx engineer told me he was disgusted that they weren't launching at Don Mills. It would have created much less chaos on Eglinton between Leslie and Brentcliffe, would have been easier to build as there is a lot more room for a shaft at the Science Centre lot and in the long run would have created a much better LRT line with full grade separation through to Don Mills (and maybe someday a relief line interchange there).

Because of headway differences between the in-median and underground portions of the LRT, every second train will short-turn at Laird even though it won't have near the riders that Don Mills will. Ironically, the Leslie condo dwellers will probably be far better off bussing to Laird station with twice the frequency of trains then waiting twice as long, after a longer walk, in the elements, for a train at their hard-won Leslie stop.

Ridiculous.

Why didn't Metrolinx consider a south-side surface alignment instead of a tunnel?

I never liked Jay Robinson to begin with, especially after her pathetic Gardiner expressway press conference. Her meddling with the Crosstown is just another legacy of her stupid politics.

 

[Ozman]

Why didn't Metrolinx consider a south-side surface alignment instead of a tunnel?

That of course would have been the logical thing to do, and probably would have been acceptable by almost everyone. When the first EA meetings were held (2010 or 2011?- I can't remember) a few of us asked about a south-side alignment. Metrolinx repeatedly told us that there was plenty of time to refine the plan and that it was too early to get into that much detail. Then in 2012 they come out with the revised plan of tunnelling from Don Mills which a lot of us saw as overkill, but we liked it because it moved the launch shaft to Don Mills and most importantly didn't mess up the intersection at Leslie and Eglinton which now will slow down traffic and the LRT. When the condo types fought to save Leslie stop a bunch of people again screamed for a south side surface alignment which could have an at-grade Leslie stop and it would not interfere with the Leslie-Eglinton intersection. But now Metrolinx was saying that a launch shaft at Brentcliffe was technically IMPOSSIBLE (!!!) so they'd have to tunnel to Don Mills. When they reverted to the original EA plan in 2013 we were told that they'd wasted too much time and that the "powers-that-be" wanted to get things started to try and stay on schedule. A south side alignment would still require an EA adjustment and they'd wasted 6 months fighting (unsuccessfully) for a tunnel to Don Mills. They were going back to the original EA which miraculously was once again technically do-able and it was too late to consider a south-side alignment.

So in 2010 -too early for south-side; 2012 they wasted 6 months fighting to change EA for a tunnel (when they could have used that time to change for a south-side alignment) and by 2013 we're back to square one. Launch shaft could be (and subsequently has been) built at Brentcliffe and a south-side alignment would have given the YIMBY's their stop while giving everyone full grade-separation and ATC through to Don Mills.

What a farce!

 

[rbt]

If a statio is to named NOT after an intersection or place of interest, we might end up with nonsense station names.

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious next station. Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

At least it's not Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis station.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

For those who don't think the station at Eglinton and Bayview should be called "South Bayview",

I took this photo today, this is one block south of Eglinton at Soudan and Bayview. Note the neighbourhood name on the street sign!

South Bayview is an accurate yet neutral name as neither the people of Leaside or the Davisville-Eglinton neighbourhoods 'own' it. It's much better than either Leaside (that only borders the station) or Sunnybrook (which is pretty far away from the neighbourhood)

 

[Johnny Au]

That would make a world of difference, as the sign states.

 

[someMidTowner]

Another TBM update!

Unfortunately no movement on the eastern leg

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Damn, the blue TBM is moving quickly.

Does anyone know why the pace of the TBMs are so non-uniform? Some weeks they don't move at all, other weeks they take huge jumps.

 

[crs1026]

Damn, the blue TBM is moving quickly.

Its name is Dennis, and it's the good one.

Does anyone know why the pace of the TBMs are so non-uniform? Some weeks they don't move at all, other weeks they take huge jumps.

The obvious reasons for non-movement would be planned maintenance and breakdowns. Don't they also have to stop periodically to add another length to the conveyer belt system? I wonder if the cutting heads jam or need to be replaced at irregular intervals. I suspect the boring production schedule has periods of planned non-movement, or just plain float.

I have wondered about the sudden jumps, and suspect that's just delays in passing the data to the web person. I don't know how often the contractor has to provide data to Metrolinx, or how often the ML web people get updates from the ML project people. If a clerk takes a day or week off, does someone worry about keeping the data updated while they are away? Is the web maintained by a contract PR firm, which charges for each update? (I have seen the latter) I suspect the updates are pretty low priority. Only we junkies who need our constant TBM fixes notice. Crosstown is updating a lot more regularly than TYSSE did, and that's one thing they should get kudos for.

- Paul

 

[ehlow]

Wow it was at Spadina Rd about a week ago?