Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Hopkins123]

Doug's position in 2014 was to grade-separate the entire section from Laird to Kennedy.

 

[BurlOak]

Doug's position in 2014 was to grade-separate the entire section from Laird to Kennedy.

That was the right decision then. Unfortunately, saner minds did not prevail.
At this stage, I don't think he could cancel it.
If I were him, after the election, I might announce that I will explore means of grade-separating it. This delay of a month or two would not be excessive, and when the costs come in, he can say its excessive.
Ideally for him, it will show that the cost would have been negligible if done correctly from the start, but at this time there is no turning back. That would just provide more proof on how much this line was messed up when Council and the Liberals went against Rob.

 

[Rainforest]

Speaking of which, it may not be possible for DoFo to cancel the whole project, but can he just cancel the above ground portion, since it fits "the damned streetcars" definition?

That depends on how twisted he is ideologically. But from the practical perspective (even for the vote-harvesting), there is no benefit for him in messing with the Eglinton project.

There is no known opposition to that particular stretch of street-median LRT amongst the locals. In fact, some of the locals indicated support for the LRT when they persuaded Metrolinx to retain the Leslie and Ferrand (now Aga Khan Park) stations.

 

[44 North]

That was the right decision then. Unfortunately, saner minds did not prevail.
At this stage, I don't think he could cancel it.
If I were him, after the election, I might announce that I will explore means of grade-separating it. This delay of a month or two would not be excessive, and when the costs come in, he can say its excessive.
Ideally for him, it will show that the cost would have been negligible if done correctly from the start, but at this time there is no turning back. That would just provide more proof on how much this line was messed up when Council and the Liberals went against Rob.

Wonder how 'late' it is for rethinking Crosstown between Laird and Kennedy. If it means that we keep Line 3, and subsequently interline this with Eglinton to SC, I think right and left would be on board. Even if it delayed Laird-Kennedy section by 5-10yrs.

We'd obviously drop SSE which many seem to want, and we'd offer a subway to SC (that actually has inline stations!). We're already rethinking Crosstown between Black Ck and Pearson by adding grade-separations, so it's not unprecedented to reconsider what kind of transit Line 5 is supposed to be. Net and political benefit could be somewhat positive. Also boosts business case for expanding RLS scope to Eglinton as a Phase 1 imo.

The onus would be on PCs to embrace affordable grade-separation (open air, cut/cover, elevated). Something I'm dubious about.

 

[hw621]

Delay 5-10 years?! Then it will end up another studway that is never connected to other lines.

 

[BurlOak]

Wonder how 'late' it is for rethinking Crosstown between Laird and Kennedy. If it means that we keep Line 3, and subsequently interline this with Eglinton to SC, I think right and left would be on board. Even if it delayed Laird-Kennedy section by 5-10yrs.

We'd obviously drop SSE which many seem to want, and we'd offer a subway to SC (that actually has inline stations!). We're already rethinking Crosstown between Black Ck and Pearson by adding grade-separations, so it's not unprecedented to reconsider what kind of transit Line 5 is supposed to be. Net and political benefit could be somewhat positive. Also boosts business case for expanding RLS scope to Eglinton as a Phase 1 imo.

The onus would be on PCs to embrace affordable grade-separation (open air, cut/cover, elevated). Something I'm dubious about.

I don't know exactly what the state of construction is, but I guess that the Scenic Portal (east of Brentcliffe) and the Don Mills-Eglinton Station are already set.

• First, I imagine tearing up some of the tunnel and portal near Scenic (east of Brentcliffe) and rebuilding it so the portal would be on the south side.
• You could then elevate over West Don River, have a Leslie station elevated (or on an embankment).
• The line would go under the end span of the CPR bridge and avoid the Celestica Ramps (I think it should be converted to more of a diamond interchange).
• It would then have to be cut-and-cover to meet the station which is roughly in the centre of Eglinton.
• It also means the Don Mills station is too deep to allow for elevation over DVP.
• If farther means you can't elevate over East Don River.
• It would have to be cut-and-cover from Don Mills to I don't know where. You are chasing the hill, so it can't elevate until at lease Bermondsay.
• And beyond Bermondsay, there are so many entrances, I you couldn't elevate anywhere on the south side. In the median, it may be possible to elevate between Bermondsay and Vic Park - but even that's not easy since it is still a reasonable uphill segment.
• At best, you can get buy with a 4km underground portion and 3.5km elevated, but likely the full 7.5km would have to be underground.
• In terms of cost, this is likely about $1.5 to 3.0B extra.
• If done from the start, the Laird cross-over could have been at-grade near Celestica, instead of the underground mining they are doing now. The could have elevated about 6.5km of the line for much greater savings. They could have built the Scenic Portal properly from the start - eliminating the need for reconstructions. They could have achieved lower bid prices instead of negotiating as extras.

Could Ford pull this off - while suffering delay costs, additional construction costs, additional planning time wasted, and additional construction time. I could see tying it in to a DRL station at Don Mills and Eglinton (i.e. promising extending DRL to Eglinton and blaming previous for not properly planning the station), but since there are uncertainties as to what route the DRL would take - I don't see this happening.

If I think back to the 2014 Mayor campaign, I think Ford had already all but forgot about the ECLRT and was focusing more on the SSE. I could see a promise to review the SSE costs (I think everyone is leery of any costing and planning that has already been done, since there has likely been little thought to reduce costs) and use any savings to add additional stations at Lawrence and/or Sheppard. I do expect no firm promises though - just relying on the fact that people have no faith in what has been done until now and trusting Ford will find efficiencies.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Delay 5-10 years?! Then it will end up another studway that is never connected to other lines.

10 km through a central section isn't stubway status.

 

[hw621]

10 km through a central section isn't stubway status.

No, just a higher order transit

 

[M II A II R II K]

If it’s all grade separated should have made it a subway in the first place.

 

[Wrench]

Was in the Area Today just a few pics:
Metrolinx pow wow

 

[Leo_Chan]

I know this isn't the best thing to compare the Crosstown to, but the Viva Rapidway construction is/was much better than the Crosstown's surface construction in terms of organization, clarity, and ininconvenience.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I know this isn't the best thing to compare the Crosstown to, but the Viva Rapidway construction is/was much better than the Crosstown's surface construction in terms of organization, clarity, and ininconvenience.

And how much of the Rapidway is underground in a narrow roadway?

 

[Leo_Chan]

And how much of the Rapidway is underground in a narrow roadway?

As I said, it’s not a fair comparison as tha scales are different in terms of size and area to work with. The most comparable (so far) would probably be around Don Mills Road.

 

[Axf4ever]

Pretty interesting video showing how the tunnels will look

 

[maxt797]

Pretty interesting video showing how the tunnels will look

Exciting... freaky if you are claustrophobic though...