Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Hopkins123]

Im ok with what you are suggesting up until "parallel bus service." I used to walk from huntingwood to finch to grab a bus because midland was so infrequent. However there is a loud majority or minority ( I have no idea which one) which seems to jump on me for suggesting that people can walk abit more between stops. I too would rather less stops while on the service than to have random stops. Anyways once these people break out the dont you think about people with disabilities, seniors, children arguments we are back to either keeping the stops or running a bus as you suggested. Unfortunately we dont have the money for the busses. Id prefer just thinking that the loud voices are a minority and therefore we should ignore them. I dont know.

There'll be a parallel bus regardless though, the 116 Morningside. I just don't see the TTC short-turning a mainline route such as this short of Kennedy Station. The 86 might cease to exist post-Crosstown East though west of Morningside through.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Im ok with what you are suggesting up until "parallel bus service." I used to walk from huntingwood to finch to grab a bus because midland was so infrequent. However there is a loud majority or minority ( I have no idea which one) which seems to jump on me for suggesting that people can walk abit more between stops. I too would rather less stops while on the service than to have random stops. Anyways once these people break out the dont you think about people with disabilities, seniors, children arguments we are back to either keeping the stops or running a bus as you suggested. Unfortunately we dont have the money for the busses. Id prefer just thinking that the loud voices are a minority and therefore we should ignore them. I dont know.

People forget that buses in the United States expect to stick around for 12 years, which is why people like the "new" buses or vehicles they get in the States. In Canada, buses tend to stick around up to 20 years, if lucky and with good maintenance. Rail vehicles can last up to 40 years.

 

[sixrings]

There'll be a parallel bus regardless though, the 116 Morningside. I just don't see the TTC short-turning a mainline route such as this short of Kennedy Station. The 86 might cease to exist post-Crosstown East though west of Morningside through.

I honestly dont know all the details but I do remember transit cities goal was to have just enough stops that they didnt have to run a duplicate service. i get that Miller is long gone but I think the more we start constructing things such as the bloor extenstion the more we see how prices have gone up. I dont think anyone is going to be ecstatic if we build all this transit but our fares have to double to pay for it. Obviously theres always inflation in fares but in this case I dont think people want their fares going up crazy amounts because we picked luxury services especially since we have one of the highest fares already in north america and especially since those who need the services the most live the farthest from the city and often dont have vehicles.

 

[dowlingm]

214m leaves 1.58 billion unfunded. you can get 900m from the province and about 700m from the national infrastructure fund. That's 1.6 billion or so. Should cover every and add the 214m to that, we should be good on Eglinton East.

That's not creative though. That's just asking a different level of government for $ which you are unwilling to raise local taxes to borrow. Feds and province might come to the table, but at the proportions above? Given the deficits Feds are running and the province now switching to subsidized hydro to buy votes with? Wouldn't give much for the chance of that.

 

[sixrings]

That's not creative though. That's just asking a different level of government for $ which you are unwilling to raise local taxes to borrow. Feds and province might come to the table, but at the proportions above? Given the deficits Feds are running and the province now switching to subsidized hydro to buy votes with? Wouldn't give much for the chance of that.

Theres only one tax payer except when it comes to Toronto transit in which case everyone else should pay up in fear of people switching their votes.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

That's not creative though. That's just asking a different level of government for $ which you are unwilling to raise local taxes to borrow. Feds and province might come to the table, but at the proportions above? Given the deficits Feds are running and the province now switching to subsidized hydro to buy votes with? Wouldn't give much for the chance of that.

Theres only one tax payer except when it comes to Toronto transit in which case everyone else should pay up in fear of people switching their votes.

Yup. Toronto almost never pays, so we have to kick this upward.

 

[dowlingm]

The UTSC express bus, which presumably the UTSC line would replace, makes great time between UTSC and Kennedy (although a bit of hike to either bus stop from the Pan Am Centre) making about 12 stops. Maybe there would have to be more but hopefully not many. I would hope that having a fast, smooth LRT would improve the profile of and ease of access to VIA services from Guildwood.

I don't understand the "we can't afford parallel buses" argument above. If the LRT is turned into a streetcar in ROW, stopping everywhere, you're going to need more LRVs and operators because they won't go end to end as quickly, and they are unlikely to pull new riders in to the degree a fast LRT would. By the time an LRT would be at final design the TTC should have a decent amount of Presto data to determine who rides from which stops - not merely to Kennedy and UTSC but other nodes in east Scarborough too.

 

[sixrings]

one of the reasons to go to LRT was because then you would need less vehicles since they hold more people which would mean less drivers. There is an effort here to give more service with the same amount or less staff.

 

[Rainforest]

Just thinking; will a bus be needed anyway on Eglinton East, to serve areas away from the LRT route: Guildwood Pkwy, Morningside south of Kingston, and Kingston east of Morningside?

If yes, then perhaps some less popular LRT stops on Eglinton can be removed, because the bus will be there.

As of grade-separations at the critical points, they will help speed-up the LRT, but will add to the cost substantially.

 

[Voltz]

Just thinking; will a bus be needed anyway on Eglinton East, to serve areas away from the LRT route: Guildwood Pkwy, Morningside south of Kingston, and Kingston east of Morningside?

If yes, then perhaps some less popular LRT stops on Eglinton can be removed, because the bus will be there.

As of grade-separations at the critical points, they will help speed-up the LRT, but will add to the cost substantially.

The plan for busses in the EA was to have a bus loop at Kingston Road and Eglinton, and have a bus route start there and follow the route of the 116 down Guildwood Parkway and up Morningside to Kingston, where it would meet the LRT again and then follow the route of the 86 east on Kingston Road. So there would not be busses paralleling the LRT for much of the route.

 

[Hopkins123]

I've mentioned it in the forum before how to go about about fewer stops.

1. Consolidate some of the stops. Instead of Midland and Famouth, a single stop in the block from Commonwealth to Huntington. Combine Mason and Markham. Combine Kingston/Eglinton and Golf Club. Combine Lawrence and Kingston/Morningside. There you go. 4 highly trafficked stops versus 8 poorer performing ones.

2. Cut the West Hill stop. 116 bus covers this already.

3. 3 stops at UTSC is a bit much. A single underground station on the campus proper, followed by the secondary terminus at Military Trail/Morningside would be better IMO.

I've just taken 18 stops and turned it into 12. And the walking distances aren't vastly affected either. How am I the bad guy for suggesting a leaner, more efficient, more bang for our buck LRT line? If you think about it, I'm not really suggesting to cut anything.

As for grade separation. Again this has been covered previously. Grade-separate at Brimley/Danforth Rd, Bellamy/Eglinton GO, Kingston/Eglinton, Guildwood GO, West Hill triangle, separate bridge crossing at Morningside Park/Highland Creek, UTSC campus, separate 401 bridge crossing if ever extended into Malvern.

Here's my vision illustrated:



As you can see, the stops still look and feel as numerous as the proposed 18-stop Crosstown East plan.

 

[Voltz]

I've mentioned it in the forum before how to go about about fewer stops.

1. Consolidate some of the stops. Instead of Midland and Famouth, a single stop in the block from Commonwealth to Huntington. Combine Mason and Markham. Combine Kingston/Eglinton and Golf Club. Combine Lawrence and Kingston/Morningside. There you go. 4 highly trafficked stops versus 8 poorer performing ones.

2. Cut the West Hill stop. 116 bus covers this already.

3. 3 stops at UTSC is a bit much. A single underground station on the campus proper, followed by the secondary terminus at Military Trail/Morningside would be better IMO.

I've just taken 18 stops and turned it into 12. And the walking distances aren't vastly affected either. How am I the bad guy for suggesting a leaner, more efficient, more bang for our buck LRT line? If you think about it, I'm not really suggesting to cut anything.

As for grade separation. Again this has been covered previously. Grade-separate at Brimley/Danforth Rd, Bellamy/Eglinton GO, Kingston/Eglinton, Guildwood GO, West Hill triangle, separate bridge crossing at Morningside Park/Highland Creek, UTSC campus, separate 401 bridge crossing if ever extended into Malvern.

Contrary to to your earlier assumption I actually live in the east end of Scarborough and I take the busses along this route all the time, I am very familiar with this route.

1. The only stop consolidation I might agree with is the Midland/Falmouth stop. Removing the Mason Rd stop. since the Markham Rd stop can't be moved, would result in a gap of 1160m, that's too far and there are several apartment buildings and many homes in the area at Mason. Both stops at Lawrence and KR/Morningside would be fairly well used. both from walk ins and bus transfers, and it's already long enough from Lawrence to Galloway. There is a High School at West Hill and many homes, and removing that stop would result in spacing of 1.6Km, really? The stop at Ellesmere is not in the UTSC campus. it's right across from a Centennial College campus. and there are many apartment buildings to the west that would be far from the UTSC stops.

2. The EA did not call for parallel bus service, and why would you want those using the West Hill stop to be in mixed traffic busses all the way to Kennedy to save nothing in travel time for the LRT?

3. As I've said, UTSC does not have three stops, and the location of the main stop is in a central location in the Campus, where you have previously shown where you want it is not,

As for your grade separations, the one at Eglinton/KR is not needed at all, the LRT would only cross westbound traffic on KR that has not turned on to Eglinton, signal priority would be a non issue here. Why Guildwood GO? The intersection at Celeste is minor, signal priority is also a non issue here. The LRT at Lawrence would follow the predominant direction of traffic. The EA called for half the trains to be short turned at Morningside. so decent signal priority would also be doable. The West Hill triangle would require a 500m long underground section with an underground station, not cheap.The EA already called for a separate bridge across Morningside Park, on the east side of Moriningside, meaning the LRT would be using a side of the road alignment from West Hill to UTSC already. A much higher and longer bridge would be required to go directly from West Hill to the UTSC campus, much higher cost for negligible benefit. And why on earth do you want a new bridge across the 401? There is nothing on Morningside here to get in the way.

You have substantially increased costs for little benefit, and made access harder for many, as well as requiring parallel bus service. And what else would have to be cut to pay for it? As well as you will cause further delays by needed to redo the EA.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Contrary to to your earlier assumption I actually live in the east end of Scarborough and I take the busses along this route all the time, I am very familiar with this route.

1. The only stop consolidation I might agree with is the Midland/Falmouth stop. Removing the Mason Rd stop. since the Markham Rd stop can't be moved, would result in a gap of 1160m, that's two far and there are several apartment buildings and many homes in the area at Mason. Both stops at Lawrence and KR/Morningside would be fairly well used. both from walk ins and bus transfers, and it's already long enough from Lawrence to Galloway. There is a High School at West Hill and many homes, and removing that stop would result in spacing of 1.6Km, really? The stop at Ellesmere is not in the UTSC campus. it's right across from a Centennial College campus. and there are many apartment buildings to the west that would be far from the UTSC stops.

2. The EA did not call for parallel bus service, and why would you want those using the West Hill stop to be in mixed traffic busses all the way to Kennedy to save nothing in travel time for the LRT?

3. As I've said, UTSC does not have three stops, and the location of the main stop is in a central location in the Campus, where you have previously shown where you want it is not,

As for your grade separations, the one at Eglinton/KR is not needed at all, the LRT would only cross westbound traffic on KR that has not turned on to Eglinton, signal priority would be a non issue here. Why Guildwood GO? The intersection at Celeste is minor, signal priority is also a non issue here. The LRT at Lawrence would follow the predominant direction of traffic. The EA called for half the trains to be short turned at Morningside. so decent signal priority would also be doable. The West Hill triangle would require a 500m long underground section with an underground station, not cheap.The EA already called for a separate bridge across Morningside Park, on the east side of Moriningside, meaning the LRT would be using a side of the road alignment from West Hill to UTSC already. A much higher and longer bridge would be required to go directly from West Hill to the UTSC campus, much higher cost for negligible benefit. And why on earth do you want a new bridge across the 401? There is nothing on Morningside here to get in the way.

You have substantially increased costs for little benefit, and made access harder for many, as well as requiring parallel bus service. And what else would have to be cut to pay for it? As well as you will cause further delays by needed to redo the EA.

I agree will everything you said. But one small mistake, the centre on UTSC is north of original stop location, it's north of Ellsemere, not south of it , but of course it better to have a bit more distance from the Morningside/Ellsemere stop and the TPASC stop. A bridge over Morningside Park/Highlamd creek is completely unnecessary and would prevent a stop being at Morningside/Ellsemere.

 

[salsa]

Do any of you even venture through east Scarborough on a regular basis to know what I'm talking about, or are you just armchair critics?

You are the one who's going around telling us how the LRT is inferior to your plan. If anything, you're the armchair critic.

 

[Palma]

On Metrolinx Crosstown updates,Feb.27 2017:

• Following the transportation of the crane into the site, the tunnel boring machines, Don and Humber, will be extracted during mid-March and mid-April 2017.

I had for gotton about the east end and thought the tunnelling ended ended