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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

Demand along Don Mills itself would come nowhere close to justifying rapid transit. Based purely on local demand, some kind of express or rapid bus seems most appropriate.

The question though is how would Don Mills interact with the surface routes it intersects. All of the Don Mills LRT studies were done assuming a fairly local style LRT which didn't attract much transfer ridership, not an alternative to the Yonge subway.

Exactly. Using density along a particular corridor (Don Mills) is a moot argument. If we were to use only density to predict the success of a subway, the Spadina Subway would have been a total failure. That line runs through a low density area of the city, in the middle of a freeway that is lined by low density residential, a private airport, a rail yard, large empty fields and a shopping complex. It's the feeder busses that makes Spadina successful. The same could likely be said for Don Mills. And just judging by the ridership on the feeder busses for Don Mills, that line could very well have higher ridership than Spadina.
 
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Hasn't Metrolinx said that upgrading the Richmond Hill GO line isn't an option for relieving Yonge?

True. It could have work if they had the Lakeshore service Level and a shorter travel time (faster electric trains like Paris RER and NSR in london). At the minute they were told they would get the subway, that option just died.

I still believe GO could have done the job for Richmond hill by fixing and merge Oriole with Leslie Station, adding an Eglinton stop, a Bloor stop somehow.

They could have had state of the art LRT lines all terminating to Richmond Hill GO station and going in the main corners of York regions. Too late now. After getting the Vaughan "Metropolis mega super corporate" Centre, they won't ask...they will demand the Scarborough subway to go to Markham.

Hell they might get Sheppard Subway extended by demanding that the line ends at the future GTA centre... who knows...

Such a waste...
 
Why is the ridership at Don Mills and Eglinton so low in that model? Does it pretend that the Eglinton LRT does not exist? Does it completely ignore feeder buses or something? I would think that the Eglinton LRT, and buses 25, 54 and 100 alone would produce far more ridership than that model suggests, never mind walk in traffic.

No, I suspect that this is someone's school project. The TTC has never indicated station locations in the modern versions of the DRL process, and there has never, ever been an "official" version that projected a route and stations to and up Roncesvalles.

Hasn't Metrolinx said that upgrading the Richmond Hill GO line isn't an option for relieving Yonge?

Multiple times.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Hasn't Metrolinx said that upgrading the Richmond Hill GO line isn't an option for relieving Yonge?

Kinda but not really. They made minimal investments (few additional trains, no track fixes, etc.), did not consider fare integration, and did not consider anything south of Steeles.

What they found is that Richmond Hill GO cannot service Richmond Hill center for free ($300M or something) as well as a Yonge line extension can for $3B.


There have been no studies about a fixed up Richmond Hill line (straightened track, 5 minute frequencies) with improved integration at Sheppard and Eglinton, fare integration (free transfer from TTC), and buses re-routed to bus terminals on the Richmond Hill line.
 
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Kinda but not really. They made minimal investments (few additional trains, no track fixes, etc.), did not consider fare integration, and did not consider anything south of Steeles.

What they found is that Richmond Hill GO cannot service Richmond Hill center for free ($300M or something) as well as a Yonge line extension can for $3B.


There have been no studies about a fixed up Richmond Hill line (straightened track, 5 minute frequencies) with improved integration at Sheppard and Eglinton, fare integration (free transfer from TTC), and buses re-routed to bus terminals on the Richmond Hill line.

Go Stops at Langstaff. That's ridiculous if true.
 
Kennedy Station Design Update Meeting

From this link:

Metrolinx invites you to attend a meeting for information on the preliminary station and stop designs for the Eglinton Crosstown project. Specifically, the station design concept for the Crosstown Kennedy Station, including the mobility hub study, will be presented. As well, the surface stop design concepts and surface alignment from Bermondsey to Kennedy will be available for review.

Date:Wednesday, December 11, 2013
Time:6:30 p.m. – 9:00 p.m.
Location:SATEC at W.A. Porter
Collegiate Institute
40 Fairfax Crescent, Toronto
The meeting will be open house format with an opportunity to view displays and speak one-on-one with staff.
- See more at: http://www.thecrosstown.ca/news-med...on-design-update-meeting#sthash.tl9rzvnF.dpuf

If able to attend, each person should try and make mention about moving the Leslie stop to the south side of Eglinton, and cross-platform stations (rough-in) for the Don Mills interchange.
 
Demand along Don Mills itself would come nowhere close to justifying rapid transit. Based purely on local demand, some kind of express or rapid bus seems most appropriate.

The question though is how would Don Mills interact with the surface routes it intersects. All of the Don Mills LRT studies were done assuming a fairly local style LRT which didn't attract much transfer ridership, not an alternative to the Yonge subway.

That said, the line doesn't even have to be on Don Mills per se. If ridership is mostly transfering, it lets the route be more flexible since we don't have to go out of our way to hit certain destinations.

There are dozens of permutations of these, but I'd see three major corridor options which could originate from Don Mills/Eglinton.

1.) Don Mills/DVP: The line could run above ground along the DVP, swerving a bit to hit things like the Sheppard terminus or Seneca College. The only other semi-significant trip generator along this corridor would be Lawrence-Don Mills.

2.) Agincourt rail corridor. Especially if the DRL approached Leaside from the West, it should be possible to build a low cost extension along the rail corridor to Lawrence/VicPark-> Ellesmere/Warden -> Agincourt-> STC or Malvern or so. Or it could turn up the Stouffvile corridor after Agincourt.

3.) Richmond Hill rail corridor. The line could be upgraded and straitened and stations added where major roads intersect.

All of those corridors would intersect the same basic feeder routes to some extent. It would take pretty detailed modelling to figure out how and at what cost. In terms of cost, they should all be fairly low and comparable. Stations would be relatively infrequent and routes would be nearly 100% above ground.

Ideally we'd actually see the DRL branch into two somewhere around here.
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Base on what you have said, these are the three options (four? I made two scarborough alignments.) for the DRL. I think the Malvern idea would be popular.
 

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If able to attend, each person should try and make mention about moving the Leslie stop to the south side of Eglinton, and cross-platform stations (rough-in) for the Don Mills interchange.

Hmm. What if people at the meeting about Kennedy want to talk about Kennedy? The ship has probably sailed for better or worse on Leslie, and I suspect the idea of putting a whole lot of sharp bends in two different lines just so you can build a certain type of station ("tail wags dog") is deader than dead in the water.
 
Hmm. What if people at the meeting about Kennedy want to talk about Kennedy? The ship has probably sailed for better or worse on Leslie, and I suspect the idea of putting a whole lot of sharp bends in two different lines just so you can build a certain type of station ("tail wags dog") is deader than dead in the water.

Kennedy Station should still be the main topic at the next meeting. However, if asides or comments are made about Leslie and/or Don Mills, while talking about Kennedy, then the more repeats the better.
 
Kennedy Station Design Update Meeting

From this link:

If able to attend, each person should try and make mention about moving the Leslie stop to the south side of Eglinton, and cross-platform stations (rough-in) for the Don Mills interchange.


More relevant would be to raise the issue of elevating the line from Kennedy to Don Mills. The portal could move from west of Kennedy (in the median) to being elevated over Kennedy with portal on the SE side.

Of course you can raise the Leslie south side alignment since it is an obvious best alignment.

I do not support the cross platform transfer, but I would support roughing in a station at Don Mills. This station would be under the ECLRT station since the ECLRT would have to rise up quickly to become elevated over DVP. Of course Ferrand would (should) be eliminated.
 
More relevant would be to raise the issue of elevating the line from Kennedy to Don Mills. The portal could move from west of Kennedy (in the median) to being elevated over Kennedy with portal on the SE side.

Of course you can raise the Leslie south side alignment since it is an obvious best alignment.

I do not support the cross platform transfer, but I would support roughing in a station at Don Mills. This station would be under the ECLRT station since the ECLRT would have to rise up quickly to become elevated over DVP. Of course Ferrand would (should) be eliminated.

A light rail, like Eglinton, can handle curves and inclines better than heavy rail. So let the Eglinton Crosstown have the lower level and any extensive curves needed, IF Don Mills goes heavy rail.
 
A light rail, like Eglinton, can handle curves and inclines better than heavy rail. So let the Eglinton Crosstown have the lower level and any extensive curves needed, IF Don Mills goes heavy rail.

Light rail could run on a fully grade separated alignment and carry 2x as many people as non grade separated light rail.
 
Light rail could run on a fully grade separated alignment and carry 2x as many people as non grade separated light rail.

Don Mills would be an underground station straight under Eglinton Avenue East for the Eglinton Crosstown, in the plans. The plans have little or no provision for transfers to any further rapid transit line under Don Mills Road, at this time.
 
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Don Mills would be an underground station straight under Eglinton Avenue East for the Eglinton Crosstown, in the plans. The plans have little or no provision for transfers to any further rapid transit line under Don Mills Road, at this time.
And what if the DRL ends at Danforth and doesn't get extended to Eglinton for another few decades? Or ever?
 

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