Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[mrxbombastic]

West Eglinton west (that's what I call it) has a chance to become a big deal IMO. Just as much as Sheppard (gasp!) or St Clair.

Personally St Clair is a fine street and has largely achieved its chance to become a big deal, for whatever that means. the nature of St Clair and Sheppard/Eglinton is also quite different.

Eglinton and Sheppard are going to become very different urban streets from what we might be comfortable or used to in downtown. The scale is larger. The built form is completely modern. The retail has a very different demographic to cater to. I'm completely excited to see what happens here, but I dont for a second expect it will happen overnight or be successful in its first tries. Things spring up organically as the nature of the beast changes suiting to best fill the local niche. The first run of likely corporate chains may not be the most pleasant but are the start of the future for these areas and the quality of the commercial and retail will only get better with time.

 

[BurlOak]

I'd love to know who thought that selling that land was a good idea, when rapid transit is planned for that corridor. It's as if the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing in this city.

The "left" hand (the Miller supporters) said that the LRT would be in the median and the land to the north could be disposed of. The "right" hand (Ford) was not smart enough to look forward and see what transit along Eglinton should be like since they were so distracted by Sheppard and the SRT.

Where exactly is this development going? How close to Eglinton? Will the entrance be from Eglinton?
Provided a reasonable right-of-way is kept for Eglinton (i.e. boulevard, sidewalk,room for a lane or two of expansion) then an elevated track may still be possible. There could also be a shift of Eglinton by a lane or two to make room on the north for the elevated tracks.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Eglinton Avenue West, west of Weston Road, is suburban sprawl at its worst. Allowance was made for the car.

Today, the south side of Eglinton Avenue West, until Martin Grove Road, is a linear park, with a bicycle path. The north side has been up for sale (and parts have been sold), as a source of funds for the city. West of Martin Grove, it just about all automobile sprawl, especially around the 401-427 intersection.

Would like to see parts of it have a more "old urban" storefronts and townhouses feel. There are some tree lots, that I would like to be kept as tree lots.

 

[BurlOak]

You could, however, suggest that if you went to the residents of areas with planned transit lines (LRT, BRT, whatever) and asked "do you want that, or would you rather have a subway?" you will get all of them asking for a subway. So is what the people want always the best solution? Or does there have to be leadership from the experts and politicians to show that there are alternatives which, often, are the best solutions.

To describe the increase in cost from the $1.4B LRT in Scarborough to the ~$3B subway as "marginal" is to stretch the meaning of that word beyond its most common usage.

Of course everyone would want a subway - that is why there need to be more options for the public to choose from. With a choice of the Transit City SRT-LRT (the one with the forced transfer at Kennedy) or the B-D subway extension - the public favoured the subway. With some choices between these two and a statement that subway is too expensive, then another alternative could have been chosen. What should have been done for Scarborough (an elevated Eglinton LRT connected to an SRT through the existing alignment and extended to Malvern) was an extra $300M to $400M - I would say that would still count as marginal.

We wouldn't trust the uninformed masses to dictate how our sewer system should work. Why should we with transit? I'm not saying that there shouldn't be public input, but the entire process really needs to be depoliticized. Something is seriously wrong when people who don't take or understand anything about transit operations start telling experts what technology should and shouldn't be used in transit operations.

Why do we even trust the uniformed masses to vote - because they will be deciding economic policy of which they know nothing about. I suppose you also agree that the public should have no say in highway planning and the "experts" who wanted the Spadina, Scarborough, Crosstown, etc. Freeways should have been built. The problem is that you have to listen to the public and consider their needs in the solution. You do not need to give the public everything they want. It seems that transit experts refused to make any compromises their plan to address the public concerns and then the whole thing blew up in their faces.

 

[BurlOak]

Eglinton Avenue West, west of Weston Road, is suburban sprawl at its worst. Allowance was made for the car.

Today, the south side of Eglinton Avenue West, until Martin Grove Road, is a linear park, with a bicycle path. The north side has been up for sale (and parts have been sold), as a source of funds for the city. West of Martin Grove, it just about all automobile sprawl, especially around the 401-427 intersection.

Would like to see parts of it have a more "old urban" storefronts and townhouses feel. There are some tree lots, that I would like to be kept as tree lots.

That is why the median LRT will not work. If Eglinton stays the way it is, then it will continue to be a car-centric area and few will use LRT. If Eglinton is redeveloped (and more intersections added, then more people will want to use the LRT, but with the added congestion on the road the in-median LRT will not be able to meet demand.

 

[TFC]

We wouldn't trust the uninformed masses to dictate how our sewer system should work. Why should we with transit? I'm not saying that there shouldn't be public input, but the entire process really needs to be depoliticized. Something is seriously wrong when people who don't take or understand anything about transit operations start telling experts what technology should and shouldn't be used in transit operations.

+1

Of course everyone would want a subway - that is why there need to be more options for the public to choose from. With a choice of the Transit City SRT-LRT (the one with the forced transfer at Kennedy) or the B-D subway extension - the public favoured the subway. With some choices between these two and a statement that subway is too expensive, then another alternative could have been chosen. What should have been done for Scarborough (an elevated Eglinton LRT connected to an SRT through the existing alignment and extended to Malvern) was an extra $300M to $400M - I would say that would still count as marginal.



Why do we even trust the uniformed masses to vote - because they will be deciding economic policy of which they know nothing about. I suppose you also agree that the public should have no say in highway planning and the "experts" who wanted the Spadina, Scarborough, Crosstown, etc. Freeways should have been built. The problem is that you have to listen to the public and consider their needs in the solution. You do not need to give the public everything they want. It seems that transit experts refused to make any compromises their plan to address the public concerns and then the whole thing blew up in their faces.

The problem with considering their needs is that the vast majority projects (housing development, transit, etc) would never get done. People lose their minds when they find out their left turn lane will be discontinued, if a semi-detached house is being constructed where a single once stood (gasp!), or if their transit stop isn't like the privileged downtowners'.
Transit planning should be depoliticized, so as to prevent individuals without knowledge on transit operations, infrastructure and supportive densities, from drawing transit fantasy maps, only for them to be implemented in the real world in attempt to buy votes.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Personally St Clair is a fine street and has largely achieved its chance to become a big deal, for whatever that means. the nature of St Clair and Sheppard/Eglinton is also quite different.

Eglinton and Sheppard are going to become very different urban streets from what we might be comfortable or used to in downtown. The scale is larger. The built form is completely modern. The retail has a very different demographic to cater to. I'm completely excited to see what happens here, but I dont for a second expect it will happen overnight or be successful in its first tries. Things spring up organically as the nature of the beast changes suiting to best fill the local niche. The first run of likely corporate chains may not be the most pleasant but are the start of the future for these areas and the quality of the commercial and retail will only get better with time.

Big Deal as in major commercial strip. But I like your analysis. We have a chance to make Richview and Willowridge more then sleepy residential streets.

 

[reaperexpress]

I went in to the Crosstown community office today to ask some questions.

Regarding Leslie station: The representative agreed that the stop does not pass a cost/benefit test since there is nothing around it and the area will be also served by bus routes which go to other Crosstown stations, and that Metrolinx is well aware of this. She said that they put the station back in due to community pressure. When asked about how people who would not use the station (i.e. everyone who would ride the line) could voice their opposition to slower transit, she suggested emailing (crosstown(at)metrolinx.com).

Regarding using a south side alignment between Brentcliffe and Don Mills, she agreed that it made more sense, but did not know why a median alignment is used. She said she'll ask her superiors and get back to me.

Metrolinx seems really inconsistent in their attitude toward public consultation. They act completely enslaved to this Leslie "community", introducing a station that they know will just be a waste of money (keep in mind that longer trip times means more trains are needed to maintain a given frequency). Yet most of the time when given suggestions, they simply look for excuses as to why they won't implement them, rather than considering whether they are actually good ideas.

 

[wopchop]

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...nton-Condos-(Cityzen-Fernbrook-3s-Tact)/page3

so part of the corridor is sold and under construction... I too agree that this part of Eglinton is like a mini highway with few lights... The cheapest option is the best option because its the most likely option...

There is also a townhouse development just east of there, at the NE corner of Kipling and Eglinton in the ROW. Still in planning stage.

 

[mrxbombastic]

This is the original Build Toronto marketing piece for the land.

The City's Development site however shows a much less optimistic development proposal:

Proposal to construct an eight block, 3-storey townhouse development containing 71 units. A new public street (extending through the middle of the site) from Kipling Avenue to Eglinton Avenue West, is also being proposed. See Folder 13 144569 WET 04 OZ for related rezoning application and Folder 13 228429 WET 04 SB for related subdivision application.

Kind of Disappointing if I'm honest

 

[andrewpmk]

I went in to the Crosstown community office today to ask some questions.

Regarding Leslie station: The representative agreed that the stop does not pass a cost/benefit test since there is nothing around it and the area will be also served by bus routes which go to other Crosstown stations, and that Metrolinx is well aware of this. She said that they put the station back in due to community pressure. When asked about how people who would not use the station (i.e. everyone who would ride the line) could voice their opposition to slower transit, she suggested emailing (crosstown(at)metrolinx.com).

Regarding using a south side alignment between Brentcliffe and Don Mills, she agreed that it made more sense, but did not know why a median alignment is used. She said she'll ask her superiors and get back to me.

Metrolinx seems really inconsistent in their attitude toward public consultation. They act completely enslaved to this Leslie "community", introducing a station that they know will just be a waste of money (keep in mind that longer trip times means more trains are needed to maintain a given frequency). Yet most of the time when given suggestions, they simply look for excuses as to why they won't implement them, rather than considering whether they are actually good ideas.

Well, the contract for tunnelling west of Brentcliffe was awarded today, it is too late to change this part of the design now.

 

[BurlOak]

Well, the contract for tunnelling west of Brentcliffe was awarded today, it is too late to change this part of the design now.

You have got to be joking - these guys can not be so stupid.

 

[Voltz]

It has probably been to late to change the location of the portal for a while now, but I guess it could be possible to elevate the LRT tracks over the intersection with Leslie and bring them back down before the railway overpass, I'm not sure if there is enough distance between Leslie and the railway overpass for this to happen, it seems long enough to be possible, like most of the schemes to eliminate the problems with this intersection it would negate the need for underground storage tracks at Laird station and be cost neutral.

 

[andrewpmk]

It has probably been to late to change the location of the portal for a while now, but I guess it could be possible to elevate the LRT tracks over the intersection with Leslie and bring them back down before the railway overpass, I'm not sure if there is enough distance between Leslie and the railway overpass for this to happen, it seems long enough to be possible, like most of the schemes to eliminate the problems with this intersection it would negate the need for underground storage tracks at Laird station and be cost neutral.

I would simply propose banning left turns at Leslie, and adding u-turn lanes just west of Don Mills and at the new road which connects to Aerodrome Drive. Rob Ford won't like it at all, but this is by far the cheapest solution.

 

[andrewpmk]

Also it looks really weird seeing Glen Murray standing in front of a map of the Eglinton LRT with the SRT missing.