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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

How in hell do you lay nearly 30 km of dual track and not see that it’s out of spec? Haven’t we been running the LRT on test for several months now?
seriously... if 3mm for a TRAM is causing these problems, they are also guilty for buying an inferior product. this is not a HSR, its a slow moving tram that should have plenty of tolerances. dont tell me 3mm is what caused a derailment...
i find Verster's comment regarding MM precision required very difficult to believe. thats what youll need for NASA rockets, not TTC rockets. hes probably just pulling random quotes out of his ass to hide the fact that ML and crosslinx both shit to bed on managing this project.
 
Do you mean the Flexcity streetcars?
These are virtually identical to the cars used in Waterloo, and I'm not aware of any major issues there.

Even the similar cars that TTC have used didn't see significant problems, other than the initial weld problems that have now all fixed for free by Bombardier/Alstom. And it was never an operational issue, only concerns about long-turm structural integrity. I thought both the TTC and Waterloo Flexity introductions did much better than is often the case.

I just hope any issues with the Crosstown cars will be discovered whilst they're sitting idle for another year in the yard, and not after they enter service.
That is a concern.
 
When they first entered service they were beset with issues.
And you are aware that they entered service in 2014, right?

This required units to be sent back to the factory for repairs and rework.
Only the first 66 were sent back. This was done free of charge to the TTC and did not concern the later units built from 2018 onwards.

Just what exactly are you expecting is going to happen, that 9 years of operations at the TTC, and 4 years of service in Waterloo failed to detect?
 
Doubt it. Finch and Hurontario are the standard template and are proceeding just fine. If anything, they are exactly what we want our LRTs to be.
Except now we've found out that Finch wont open until 2024 now, and i'm sure Hurontario will be delayed in very short order.
 
Do you mean the Flexcity streetcars? When they first entered service they were beset with issues. This required units to be sent back to the factory for repairs and rework. Choosing the lowest bidder here was not the best move.



I just hope any issues with the Crosstown cars will be discovered whilst they're sitting idle for another year in the yard, and not after they enter service. Looking at the below, I hope staff are assigned to keep roll them around - you can't leave rolling stock just sitting outside, not moving for a year or more.

1648557884-20220329-eglinton-crosstown-testing.jpg
Maybe let's stop buying crap from Bombardier...
 
Maybe let's stop buying crap from Bombardier...

What crap? As discussed in two different posts above, there haven't been any big issues from Bombardier that impact operations. New equipment always has teething problems. Both the Flexity introductions seems relatively smooth.
 
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seriously... if 3mm for a TRAM is causing these problems, they are also guilty for buying an inferior product. this is not a HSR, its a slow moving tram that should have plenty of tolerances. dont tell me 3mm is what caused a derailment...
i find Verster's comment regarding MM precision required very difficult to believe. thats what youll need for NASA rockets, not TTC rockets. hes probably just pulling random quotes out of his ass to hide the fact that ML and crosslinx both shit to bed on managing this project.
What does the quality of the rolling stock have to do with the track being out of spec? You are saying if they bought "better" rolling stock it would be able to handle the 3mm gap?
 
I think the bigger question is do those sleepers have the capability to adjust the gap by 3mm? Or do they need to replace all of them? In that case would it be easier to buy wheels that are 3mm wider? Is that even possible?
 
How do you know what they know?
From 2021. See link.

29 January 2021 – Alstom announces today the completion of the acquisition of Bombardier Transportation. Leveraging on its clear Alstom in Motion strategy and its strong operational fundamentals and financial trajectory, Alstom, integrating Bombardier Transportation, will strengthen its leadership in the growing sustainable mobility market by reaching a critical size in all geographies and integrating further solutions and assets to better serve its customers worldwide.

The enlarged Group has a combined proforma revenue of around €15.7 billion[1] and a €71.1 billion[2] combined backlog. It employs 75,000 people worldwide in 70 countries, has unparalleled R&D capabilities and a complete portfolio of products and solutions.

“Today is a unique moment for Alstom and the mobility sector worldwide, with the creation of a new global leader centered on smart and sustainable mobility. More than ever, the world has to engage in a deep environmental and social transition to be able to address the great challenges of urbanization, equal opportunity to economic development and climate change. Transportation, essential to the working and social life but with great environmental impact is at the heart of this transition. Our responsibility, together with the 75,000 people of Alstom today, is to transform our unique set of assets created by this transaction into the enabler of this necessary transformation. Our responsibility is to bring the innovation required for such extreme challenges and that all communities throughout the world, as they are traveling to meet loved ones or to work, can have access to the same quality of service and efficiency, while caring for our planet.” said Henri Poupart-Lafarge, Chairman and CEO of Alstom.
 
Except now we've found out that Finch wont open until 2024 now, and i'm sure Hurontario will be delayed in very short order.
well did you honestly think that Finch wouldve opened in 2023 given what we saw even last year? The pandemic added at least 1 year to ever infrastructure project.
 
What does the quality of the rolling stock have to do with the track being out of spec? You are saying if they bought "better" rolling stock it would be able to handle the 3mm gap?
well yes... if the rolling stock doesnt even have 3mm tolerance then they bought a Diva product that has a too extremely tight operating envelope. Do you honestly expect the track to maintain this NASA level of precise alignment throughout its service life? eventually they will have to be replaced. 3mm is NOTHING.. thats the difference that you get from thermal expansion. 3in or even 3cm is something substantial.

actually on that note...just watch the track actually shift after this rework 3mm due to thermal expansion.... that would be the most hilarious and baffling thing to see.
 
What crap - as discussed in two different posts above, there haven't been any big issues from Bombardier that impact operations. New equipment always has teething problems. Both the Flexity introductions seems relatively smooth.
You do know that Alstom bought Bombardier. They are now just one of several different models that Alstom now has available.

Ok, fair enough.
 
well yes... if the rolling stock doesnt even have 3mm tolerance then they bought a Diva product that has a too extremely tight operating envelope. Do you honestly expect the track to maintain this NASA level of precise alignment throughout its service life?
Flexity equipment doesn't have this issue elsewhere. Presumably there is a range of acceptable track gauges - but if you are outside of it, then it's a problem.

I'd assume thermal expansion and aging are all factored into the design tolerances.

You see them using track geometry gauges all the time while installing track elsewhere. Clearly they weren't being as careful on Eglinton. Or perhaps they had incorrectly calibrated their gauge.

Hmm, if they use a gauge to check the gauge, is it a Track gauge gauge? :)

Structure-Clearance-Gauging-Thumbnail.jpg
 

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