Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Northern Light]

I should note on the way back it looked like they've added the concrete base for the westbound Eglinton Ave lanes west of Yonge St in preparation for the asphalt layer to be added. So I guess that is some progress. Definitely a lot of other sections appear to be still trenches/holes where works are happening to finalize to get everything back to street level. Not the most technical explanation but you get the drift. cc @crs1026 @smallspy @Northern Light

Last I heard, the working target (faint hope) was to have the station ready for Labour Day.

But @smallspy may have more recent/accurate intel on that.

 

[Sunnyside]

Prior to the recent moral panic over Dundas, I went thirty-five years thinking Dundas Ave. was so called because it ran vaguely in the direction of Dundas Ontario, you know, like Kingston Road in Scarborough or Richmond Road in Ottawa. It's a mystery why so many things were named for someone with nothing to do with Canada, really. We're possibly better off just selling the names to corporate sponsors if cancel culture has gone so far that even Ryerson and Macdonald are villains. How about Deco Labels Crossing?

I think that was the case… Dundas and Bloor were one street, as is explained in Metro 6’s video on the Dundas Streetcar. It was a continuous road to Waterdown/Dundas as highway 5, before it was diverted from the current Bloor/Dundas interchange in etobicoke. It was then connected to the various smaller, winding streets we call Dundas today which were linked up. Bloor then continued seperately into Mississauga now. If the intention was to head to Dundas and name the road after that, I don’t know (Dundas was founded before Hamilton, I believe) but it would make sense.

 

[christiesplits]

Quick question:

Does anyone know what the cost of the Crosstown would have been if it were built as an underground subway (i.e. with Toronto Rocket) versus the current hybrid-underground/street-level LRT? How much of a difference in cost per km? Thanks!

 

[robmausser]

Quick question:

Does anyone know what the cost of the Crosstown would have been if it were built as an underground subway (i.e. with Toronto Rocket) versus the current hybrid-underground/street-level LRT? How much of a difference in cost per km? Thanks!

I believe when Ford wanted to bury the Eastern portion, it was going to cost another $4 billion in 2011 dollars.

Cost of digging a tunnel for the Eglinton crosstown could pose a problem for Rob Ford’s transit plan

From annals of things that shouldn’t be surprising but somehow are at city hall: digging a tunnel for the Eglinton LRT—one that passes under the Don

torontolife.com

 

[ssiguy2]

Last I heard, the working target (faint hope) was to have the station ready for Labour Day.

But @smallspy may have more recent/accurate intel on that.

But the burning question is Labour Day of what year?

 

[felix123]

Prior to the recent moral panic over Dundas, I went thirty-five years thinking Dundas Ave. was so called because it ran vaguely in the direction of Dundas Ontario, you know, like Kingston Road in Scarborough or Richmond Road in Ottawa. It's a mystery why so many things were named for someone with nothing to do with Canada, really. We're possibly better off just selling the names to corporate sponsors if cancel culture has gone so far that even Ryerson and Macdonald are villains. How about Deco Labels Crossing?

One solution is to use an original indigenous place name, or a significant indigenous word that has a relationship with to the area, if the place isn't easily defined.

Vancouver did this with Musqueamview, and Montréal as well when they changed Amherst to Atateken.

Just passed by Yonge and Eglinton on the 56 bus. Seems like they still have a lot of work to do still just as a non-construction average member of the public perspective.

This was tough to read. Hurry up, CL/ML

 

[crs1026]

There is, of course, a new street and place naming commemorative policy for the City. With six guiding principles.

But a provincial entity would probably not care, or respect it.

- Paul

 

[UrbanFervour]

One solution is to use an original indigenous place name, or a significant indigenous word that has a relationship with to the area, if the place isn't easily defined.

Vancouver did this with Musqueamview, and Montréal as well when they changed Amherst to Atateken.

Amherst hated indigenous people and attempted to commit genocide.

Dundas's crime? Proposing the addition of a "sunset clause" into the bill that ended the slave trade in the British Empire. His action ensured the abolition bill was passed in the House of commons, (it had previously been soundly defeated when no sunset clause).

Democratic negotiation, historic facts, intent and nuance don't matter when the red guard is out to purge the culture of enemies (real or imagined) ...

 

[W. K. Lis]

even now they couldve opened just the above grade sections and maybe turned around at science center.. .ML's insistence to open all at once was a vanity decision that will haunt them.

Light rail trains have already been test running through the entire surface AND underground sections. They could bypass Eglinton Station, if they want, but again ML refuses to do so.

 

[T3G]

Light rail trains have already been test running through the entire surface AND underground sections. They could bypass Eglinton Station, if they want, but again ML refuses to do so.

Bypassing Eglinton station, i.e. the crown jewel of the line, hasn't been done because it would be a disaster from a PR perspective, and it also wouldn't make any sense from a service planning perspective, either. Lots of people are headed for the Yonge line, you would have them transfer somewhere along the route so they can enter Eglinton station?

 

[crs1026]

There’s also the small obstacle of having to have emergency exits lighting and ventilation and first responder access for all of the line - including Eglinton-Yonge. Can’t just drive thru hoping that there will not be an incident in that stretch.

Besides, any part of the line that is opened means the contractor gets paid for tht segment. Do we want the contractor to get 90%+ of their pay while the most important segment is unfinished ? Better leverage if the contractor has to get everything done to get paid.

- Paul

 

[drum118]

Light rail trains have already been test running through the entire surface AND underground sections. They could bypass Eglinton Station, if they want, but again ML refuses to do so.

How do riders transfer from/to one line to another when they want to use X??

Does this mean TTC "MUST" run buses between LRT stations to service the Yonge Line at a huge cost and inconvenience to riders??

Have said that, TTC was prepared to bypass Finch West Station to meet the opening date of the subway extension to Vaughan. This meant those who use Finch in the first place would continue to ride the system like they had been until the station was ready for service.

There was an open house for the station the day before the line open as schedule where the station just had an passing mark to open as schedule. It was another 6-12 months before it was fully completed in phases.

In this case for bypassing the Yonge line, TTC will need to run service like they do today until the station could be open at great cost. Best to wait until "ALL" stations can be in service from day one and let the contractor funding their own cost out of their pocket to build the line than the province and the taxpayers.

 

[smallspy]

Last I heard, the working target (faint hope) was to have the station ready for Labour Day.

But @smallspy may have more recent/accurate intel on that.

None of my contacts at either the TTC or Metrolinx have any more information than has already been shared, unfortunately.

Whatever I've been able to glean from the work at Eglinton & Yonge has been what I've been able to see with my own two eyes.

Dan

 

[W. K. Lis]

How do riders transfer from/to one line to another when they want to use X??

Does this mean TTC "MUST" run buses between LRT stations to service the Yonge Line at a huge cost and inconvenience to riders??

Have said that, TTC was prepared to bypass Finch West Station to meet the opening date of the subway extension to Vaughan. This meant those who use Finch in the first place would continue to ride the system like they had been until the station was ready for service.

There was an open house for the station the day before the line open as schedule where the station just had an passing mark to open as schedule. It was another 6-12 months before it was fully completed in phases.

In this case for bypassing the Yonge line, TTC will need to run service like they do today until the station could be open at great cost. Best to wait until "ALL" stations can be in service from day one and let the contractor funding their own cost out of their pocket to build the line than the province and the taxpayers.

Cedarvale Station (AKA Eglinton West) is further along than Eglinton Station. People could use the University-Spadina leg of Line 1 to get to and from Line 5.

If you currently get "alerts" for the subway lines, we get notifications that a station is being bypassed because of some "security" or other emergency situation. While only for a short duration, stations do get bypassed occasionally.

See link.

 

[W. K. Lis]

‘Something really stinks here’: Why you still don’t know when the Eglinton LRT will start running​

Documents obtained by the Star show how Doug Ford’s government keeps a tight rein on what the public is allowed to know about the troubled transit project.​

From link.

Seven months after Metrolinx announced the Eglinton Crosstown LRT would once again fail to meet its target date, the public knows virtually nothing about how the project is going or when the line will finally open.

Asked by the Star this week when the light rail transit line, which has been under construction since 2011 and was once expected to be complete in 2020, might be done, Metrolinx said it did not have new details to offer, and put the blame on Crosslinx Transit Solutions (CTS), the construction consortium building the project.

“Metrolinx has been clear that we will not declare an opening date until we have a credible project schedule from CTS,” Metrolinx media relations wrote in a statement. Crosslinx did not respond to requests for comment.

“We are working through the most important phase right now, which includes testing, commissioning, certification and documentation to affirm that we can open a safe and reliable transit system,” Metrolinx said.

What is Metrolinx testing and commissioning? The Star asked. No response. What is the outstanding work that still needs to be done? No response. Is the project still on budget? No response.

And, a reporter’s final plea: “Would it be possible to answer my questions?”

Eglinton LRT costs and timeline have grown way past initial estimate​

As the Eglinton Crosstown LRT has spiralled beyond its initial estimates, both in cost and in timeline, details made public have become few and far between, raising questions about transparency and accountability at the provincial transit agency responsible for overseeing the project, as well as other multibillion-dollar transit projects across the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area.

Even as reporters, city officials and Metrolinx’s board members press for answers, few are forthcoming. But internal emails viewed by the Star give an indication as to who is managing the messaging and why answers to basic questions are so hard to come by.

According to communications the Star obtained through a freedom of information request, Metrolinx has at times wanted to give the public more information about the Eglinton LRT, but the provincial government directed staff at the transit agency not to.

Documents show close links between Doug Ford government and Metrolinx​

The documents, which span from July to October of last year, show how information about the Eglinton LRT flows from Metrolinx to the public, and the close relationship between the provincial transit agency and Doug Ford’s government. Critics say it is the latest example of political interference by the province with Metrolinx, which was designed as an arm’s-length agency in order to be able to implement the best transit policy based on evidence.

Instead, it has become one more layer of bureaucracy that conceals updates on the Eglinton LRT’s progress — or lack of it.

“This is an enormous project, and you’ve got no effective oversight, and no effective transparency and no effective accountability,” said Mark Winfield, professor of environmental and urban change at York University, referring to the Eglinton Crosstown LRT as a “$13-billion black hole.”

As of September 2022, the approved budget for the project was $12.8 billion.

Because Metrolinx does not have a regulator that it must publicly report to, it operates in a “vacuum,” Winfield said, adding there needs to be an effective third-party authority to oversee the province’s transit planning and development. The government does not have the capacity, expertise, or impartiality to oversee such an enormous entity as Metrolinx, Winfield added.

“The interventions you get from the minister’s office … are completely for the purposes of political management.”

Eglinton LRT raises questions about Ontario Line​

Winfield said the Eglinton Crosstown LRT’s track record does not inspire faith in Metrolinx’s other projects — notably, the Ontario Line, which has already doubled in cost to more than $17 billion and which will necessitate heavy construction downtown for the next decade.

The Star previously reported that Transportation Minister Caroline Mulroney’s office directed Metrolinx to leave two Toronto New Democrat MPPs off a notice sent to city and federal politicians about tree removals in their jurisdictions — against the transit agency’s advice.

“As a crown agency, naturally the Minister’s office works closely with Metrolinx, which has been the process for over a decade,” Ministry of Transportation spokesperson Dakota Brasier wrote in response to questions from the Star.

“Our focus is to ensure the Eglinton Crosstown LRT is operational as soon as possible,” Brasier added, before nearly repeating what Metrolinx said: “Metrolinx is working through the most important phase right now, which includes testing, commissioning, certification and documentation and we will not compromise the safety and reliability of the system at any point, as we get much-needed transportation infrastructure built.”

When completed, the Eglinton Crosstown LRT will run for 19 kilometres, between Kennedy in the east and Mount Dennis in the west, connecting with 54 bus routes, three TTC stations and GO lines, according to Metrolinx. But its construction has meant more than a decade of disruption for residents, commuters and local businesses — some of which have been forced to shutter as a result.

Metrolinx emails raise transparency questions​

“Something really stinks here. I don’t know why we don’t have the transparency we deserve,” said Joel Harden, NDP transit critic and MPP for Ottawa Centre. “These delays are expensive and costly, and we need to know why they’re happening.”

When Crosslinx was awarded the contract to build the LRT in 2015, its projected completion date was September 2021. But the years since have seen legal battles and additional payments made to Crosslinx to keep the project on track after the pandemic ramped up costs. In December 2021, Metrolinx said the transit line would be complete by September 2022 and ready for service in 2023. But in September, the Star reported the line was delayed again, this time with no new end date on record.

Eglinton LRT delays a mystery​

Very little has been said publicly about what’s behind the current delays.

Metrolinx has previously cited defects in old infrastructure under the TTC Eglinton station as a reason for the delays, and recent comments by Metrolinx’s chief capital officer for rapid transit suggest there is still outstanding work to be done in that part of the line.

At a Metrolinx board meeting in February, Andrew Hope said Crosslinx has some work to finish, “most notably at Yonge and Eglinton, which is the flagship station of the line, where there is very good progress happening at the station, but still some utility and road restoration work to happen in that location which we expect to be finished later this year.”

Neither Metrolinx nor the Ministry of Transportation answered a question from the Star this week about where the work at Yonge and Eglinton stands now. On Friday, the TTC announced there would be no subway service this weekend between York Mills and St. Clair stations (including Eglinton) due to Metrolinx construction of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT.