Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[felix123]

I mean, dwell times will be long simply by nature of it being low floor. Low floor means more erratic door spacing, as well as less doors period. This means more people bunching trying to exit and enter the train, and thus the train dwells for much longer. Compare dwell times in Ottawa vs Toronto for a good comparison.

That's an interesting point about the Confederation line. However, by comparison the line 5 light situation would then mean there is that longer low-floor dwell time, plus traffic light delay. Again, I hope that more aggressive TSP is implemented.

 

[duffo]

That's an interesting point about the Confederation line. However, by comparison the line 5 light situation would then mean there is that longer low-floor dwell time, plus traffic light delay. Again, I hope that more aggressive TSP is implemented.

Don't even need to look at Ottawa - our streetcars have essentially the same interiors as the ECLRT vehicles. Streetcar dwell times during peak hours are noticeably longer than the subway.

 

[Steve X]

Does it really matter it’s not like you people aren’t gonna ride it when it opens just cause it doesn’t have transit priority you guys are making a big issue out of nothing

The issue is will they be able to maintain a proper headway.

Neverminded, they can't even do that on subways with no traffic. Moving on

 

[ARG1]

Does it really matter it’s not like you people aren’t gonna ride it when it opens just cause it doesn’t have transit priority you guys are making a big issue out of nothing

I love this mindset of "people are going to use it, so who cares if there are silly design decisions that offer very few benefits".

 

[innsertnamehere]

Exactly. And this appears to showcase the impact of that decision.

Edit to add: if TSP isn't activated every time an LRT would otherwise encounter a red light, I think the underground section will be noticeably affected. Dwell times in underground, metro-like stations will be unacceptably long. My hope is that the city thinks better of their TSP decision, when that happens.

as long as the trains are reliably reaching Leaside at their scheduled time, it's not an issue. They simply have to schedule enough time for them to cross the surface part of Eglinton in a reasonable amount of time - the average amount of red lights they hit on a ride, plus a buffer. If the red light luck runs short, or they need extra dwell time or something else, TSP activates for them to catch up

 

[Northern Light]

Does it really matter

Yes, it does.

It matters both for the reason @Steve X notes above, the need to maintain proper headway; but its also about total trip time (the faster the trip, the more competitive it is with the car, and the more cost effectively the route can be run (fewer vehicles relative to capacity when trip times are shorter).

I'd add one more reason it matters, people actually on transit grow rightly infuriated sitting at a red light that needn't be impacting the service.

I hate taking the Spadina LRT because of the pattern of endless stops, first on the nearside of an intersection, at a red light, then again on the farside, at the stop.

If the stops were on the nearside of intersections it would be less of an issue; but, for the most part, they aren't.

 

[Northern Light]

as long as the trains are reliably reaching Leaside at their scheduled time, it's not an issue. They simply have to schedule enough time for them to cross the surface part of Eglinton in a reasonable amount of time - the average amount of red lights they hit on a ride, plus a buffer. If the red light luck runs short, or they need extra dwell time or something else, TSP activates for them to catch up

I would argue that that the scheduled travel time is excessive due to the absence of proper transit priority.

I want the fastest trip I can achieve, while maintaining a reasonable number of stops (ease of access), and personal safety comfort (acceleration/deceleration that doesn't throw standees to the ground)

Time is money.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I would argue that that the scheduled travel time is excessive due to the absence of proper transit priority.

I want the fastest trip I can achieve, while maintaining a reasonable number of stops (ease of access), and personal safety comfort (acceleration/deceleration that doesn't throw standees to the ground)

Time is money.

agreed, simply that it won't impact operations on the tunneled portion as long as enough buffer time is placed in the schedules to allow for any variability in travel times on the surface.

 

[Allandale25]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1549522525624979460

 

[T3G]

Does it really matter it’s not like you people aren’t gonna ride it when it opens just cause it doesn’t have transit priority you guys are making a big issue out of nothing

What is the relevance of this statement? Lots of people are going to attend the grand opening, and use it - but that changes nothing about the fact that the project could've been executed better. Having a modern rail project that has to give way to car traffic sends the message that despite the billions of dollars we spend on it, transit is still a second class form of transport and cars rule all. Once again, Toronto falls tragically and frustratingly short of world class.

 

[crs1026]

Time is money.

It’s more than money. It’s modal share, and it’s reputation.

And it’s the brink of a slippery slope where the operating culture slips because the timeliness can’t be assured so workarounds like padded schedules and mid route dwell and habitual short turns are added.

#TTCstreetcarseverywhereelse

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

It’s more than money. It’s modal share, and it’s reputation.

And it’s the brink of a slippery slope where the operating culture slips because the timeliness can’t be assured so workarounds like padded schedules and mid route dwell and habitual short turns are added.

#TTCstreetcarseverywhereelse

- Paul

Agreed.

The BS needs to stop around projects like this; we can justify spending this kind of money when we use it wisely and achieve a best result for the dollars available.

When we achieve a sub-standard result, below what we could reasonably hope for, we squander an opportunity without excuse.

 

[DirectionNorth]

We spent $11 billion dollars for a rail line and it stops for 7 left-turning drivers at intersections. In exchange, we get slower trips and less reliable service (if you pad schedules, what will they do if the train is early? Have it sit at Science Centre?). This city is unbelievable ...

 

[MisterF]

Literally every other city in Canada with rail transit has done a better job speeding up their trains. Ottawa and Montreal built their new lines entirely grade separated. Edmonton and Calgary typically give their trains full priority over cars in the at grade sections. Even the Kitchener-Waterloo LRT uses whatever tricks it can to reduce how much trains have to wait at intersections.

 

[innsertnamehere]

We spent $11 billion dollars for a rail line and it stops for 7 left-turning drivers at intersections. In exchange, we get slower trips and less reliable service (if you pad schedules, what will they do if the train is early? Have it sit at Science Centre?). This city is unbelievable ...

yup... that's what we were planning from the start with Transit city more or less though, and why it was so poorly planned.

That said, the line overall should still provide quite reliable service, and the padding shouldn't be too bad. It's not going to be super fast though, particularly east of Victoria Park where there are a lot more stop lights. West of Victoria Park, there are only a handful of lights mostly at local intersections.

If it's any consolation, it appears "only" 10 out of the 14 ligthts the Crosstown will travel over require advance lefts.