Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[drum118]

Fantastic pictures, have you considered to take pictures of the finch west lrt?

I have and yet to do it as I cannot find the time to do it. I am anywhere between 4-14 months behind things I normal follow and shoot was starting to get back to monthly visit before the summer and it went out the window

That's closer to 2km (less the stops and intersections), but your point is valid. But I can also understand not wanting to run the grass between Aga Khan and Victoria Park. I see the development potential and the hopes for what the Golden Mile can/might be, but that other chunk is much more limited in it's potential for an urban streetscape

Regardless of redevelopment between 404 and Kennedy portal, there is no real reason why grass couldn't been use in place of concrete. New development will have no impact on the ROW other than add more riders to the line. In fact, there will be tons of new development in the coming year with a number of location already been approved or in the process to see construction around 2025. A lot of units will be rental which will have a faster start than condos.

As a note regarding the duel transit signals. This will be the first on many new lines where service will run on one track when work has to take place on one track or there is an issue on the line. Downside to this, the crossover are far apart that service headway will be about 4 time longer than normal.

Still at a lost why one track in the station is seeing concrete, not the other unless they haven't added the molding to the rail not seeing concrete at this time. Pure waste of money.

Other than timing adjustment require between transit and traffic lights compare what I was seeing, like ML tell use why transit must stop first than the other way around.

The only reason I can think of regarding the large concrete pad mid block that it setup for a future crosswalk or something is going to be place there. If none of these, lost as to why is it there and inviting pedestrians to cross there illegal and putting everyone life in danger.

 

[drum118]

I am withholding any firm judgement until the miles of orange pylons and construction debris are gone…..but…. when I drive Eglinton East my gut reaction remains “ugh”, grass or no grass. It’s an ugly streetscape. I also find the OCS structure to be quite severe and overpowering….. surely there was a simpler and more elegant way to string those wires. Even the traffic control structures are overbuilt.
I’m glad to see any length of grass, especially when I know what a mind shift it has taken to get even a token amount injected into the City’s minds. But Eglinton is not shaping up as vibrant, yet. Let’s see a whole lot of tree planting, and a new built form that’s better than all those grubby commercial one-storey outlets.
At least we can now move a lot more people a lot faster….the stage is set for better things.

- Paul

fully agree on the OS and structure.

The green we are seeing is a future to come

 

[kotsy]

I recall seeing that 60% of the surface section will have grass.

 

[EnviroTO]

I also find the OCS structure to be quite severe and overpowering….. surely there was a simpler and more elegant way to string those wires.

Yes, I don't understand why the catenary on Spadina south of front is so lightweight and clean that it almost blends into its surroundings while some of these structures are so massive and the wiring almost looks disorganized.

 

[superelevation]

It's unfortunate how far the bar has dropped when it comes to Toronto transit design.

We seem content to get whatever scraps we get (relatively speaking, of course). What happened to city building and pride in public infrastructure?

Hopefully the Ontario Line is revised and the stations are as grand as they should be.

Basic is fine, focus on extreme starchitect designed stuff when we don't have a massive shortfall of coverage, and the TYSSE shows what happens in Toronto when you aim higher too . . .

A clear indication the bar has fallen is that we consider the TYSSE stations 'opulent'. They should be the norm.

I don't mean that every single station needs to be large in size, but there should be a real investment in the public realm - especially for stations on the Ontario Line.

People are rarely in any given public area for a significant amount of time, yet I still believe a beautiful public realm has real impact and value.

Good public realm being tied to stations is probably not a good direction, we need to create frameworks such that it exists everywhere, station or not

These stations would look beautiful on the OL if the stations end up looking like these. From Metrolinx's Subway design standards pdf.

View attachment 349205

View attachment 349206

Yep, clean and good looking, but not excessive.

The placement of the crossovers in front of or behind a station has absolutely zero bearing on the minimum headway that the system it capable of running. All of the same issues regarding speed of the crossovers and the amount of time spent occupying them remain.

Crossover geometry, signal circuit lengths, and clearance time all have a far larger factor in determining the minimum headway possible.

Dan

Actually not necessarily the case. . . .

 

[Tramways]

I am withholding any firm judgement until the miles of orange pylons and construction debris are gone…..but…. when I drive Eglinton East my gut reaction remains “ugh”, grass or no grass. It’s an ugly streetscape. I also find the OCS structure to be quite severe and overpowering….. surely there was a simpler and more elegant way to string those wires. Even the traffic control structures are overbuilt.
I’m glad to see any length of grass, especially when I know what a mind shift it has taken to get even a token amount injected into the City’s minds. But Eglinton is not shaping up as vibrant, yet. Let’s see a whole lot of tree planting, and a new built form that’s better than all those grubby commercial one-storey outlets.
At least we can now move a lot more people a lot faster….the stage is set for better things.

- Paul

Tree planting means tree maintenance. Any guesses as to who would pay for that?
And what would be a first item on the chopping block during the inevitable future rounds of tax/budget cuts?

Grubby one-storey strip malls are all that can be supported given that they're surrounded by low density suburbs.
And "density-in-a-hurry" projects like condo/apartment towers are usually serviced by grubby one-storey shopping blocks
(EglintonSquare/GoldenMile, MarkhamSquare, etc).

"Vibrant" used to describe the Caribbean neighbourhoods of Eglinton West near Oakwood, Dufferin and Keele.
"Devastated by construction" is the current description for those areas.
Can some of those businesses hang on long enough to reap the benefit of no longer having to endure streams of buses past their doors?

 

[Tramways]

Yes, I don't understand why the catenary on Spadina south of front is so lightweight and clean that it almost blends into its surroundings while some of these structures are so massive and the wiring almost looks disorganized.

Eglinton Line is really more like a train line than a city streetcar line, hence the beefier infrastructure.

 

[DirectionNorth]

Tree planting means tree maintenance. Any guesses as to who would pay for that?
And what would be a first item on the chopping block during the inevitable future rounds of tax/budget cuts?

And what would you prefer? No streetscape at all?

uGRbby one-storey strip malls are all that can be supported given that they're surrounded by low density suburbs.
And "density-in-a-hurry" projects like condo/apartment towers are usually serviced by grubby one-storey shopping blocks
(EglintonSquare/GoldenMile, MarkhamSquare, etc).

Or we could demand from developers that they have commercial space at the bottom of their towers.

V"ibrant" used to describe the Caribbean neighbourhoods of Eglinton West near Oakwood, Dufferin and Keele.
"Devastated by construction" is the current description for those areas.

Can some of those businesses hang on long enough to reap the benefit of no longer having to endure streams of buses past their doors?

And? Would you prefer our infra remain the same for another 20 years? People who complain the loudest about road construction usually complain the most about the poor road conditios that construction fixes, and people who complain most about transit construction also complain the most about road congestion. It's amazing, really.

 

[crs1026]

"Vibrant" used to describe the Caribbean neighbourhoods of Eglinton West near Oakwood, Dufferin and Keele.
"Devastated by construction" is the current description for those areas.
Can some of those businesses hang on long enough to reap the benefit of no longer having to endure streams of buses past their doors?

Those wonderful communities were doomed the moment the Crosstown project was approved. Development follows transit, and rents rise with development. Even the businesses that survive will see at minimum their leases terminated - as landlords redevelop. And when they hunt for new space, the rents will be higher, possibly prohibitively so.

The reality is, neighbourhoods move around. I’m not celebrating the impact on Eglinton, but I don’t think we can stand in the way of this kind of change.

The hideous torture of the past 7-8 years’ construction is salt in the wound - moreso since it probably could have been mitigated if we hadn’t been in love with deep bore tunnelling. If there are particular structures that deserve preservation due to their association with these communities, there may still be time to have them designated before the bulldozers arrive - but I doubt that would keep these particular communities themselves in situ.

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

Actually not necessarily the case. . . .

All else being equal - actually completely the case.

If you start to adjust the geometry you can adjust and improve certain things, although those come with a cost. But to simply move the crossovers from one end of the platform to the other? Nope, no difference.

Dan

 

[syn]

Basic is fine, focus on extreme starchitect designed stuff when we don't have a massive shortfall of coverage, and the TYSSE shows what happens in Toronto when you aim higher too . . .

Who said anything about "extreme starchitect designed stuff"?

And what exactly has the TYSSE shown when Toronto 'aims higher'?

The lack of coverage has nothing to do with well designed stations.

 

[Voltz]

All else being equal - actually completely the case.

If you start to adjust the geometry you can adjust and improve certain things, although those come with a cost. But to simply move the crossovers from one end of the platform to the other? Nope, no difference.

Dan

My point was that side platform terminal stations have shorter crossovers that require less time for the trains to go through them, and a train using the crossover is less likely to block an arriving or departing train. Also, placing the crossovers beyond the station is required so that one side is for loading and the other is for unloading.

 

[max]

All else being equal - actually completely the case.

If you start to adjust the geometry you can adjust and improve certain things, although those come with a cost. But to simply move the crossovers from one end of the platform to the other? Nope, no difference.

Dan

Couldn't you improve throughput with the crossover or crossover and pocket setup past the terminal station with step-back crewing?

My rough thought on how this would work for a single train is:

1. Train pulls in to it's right side track at terminal station
2. The next operator gets on the train at the terminal station
3. Train pulls into an empty tail track
4. New operator immediately takes over from initial operator
5. Train pulls out into the opposite track from step 1
6. Initial operator disembarks.
7. Train leaves the station

To me it seems like if you tried to pull off something similar with a crossover before the station, every time a train leaves the station via the crossover it would block the incoming track with its movements. With the above, incoming trains can still hit the platform while the train is being reversed in the tail track once they clear the switch(es) past the terminal station.

I'll admit, I have no idea how long step 4 would take for 2 operators to do the handover, but I'm assuming one would optimize the tail track infrastructure to increase train storage past the terminal to allow for an efficient operation. Is there some kind of signal issue where a train in the tail tracks somehow impacts any train coming behind it?

 

[Tramways]

And what would you prefer? No streetscape at all?

Would you prefer to have dead trees lining the street?
Grand, designed streetscapes always require some kind of long-term maintenance.
In the end, who will be responsible for that maintenance?
And what happens when the {govt/owners/mgmt} changes and the inevitable cost-reductions take place?

 

[drum118]

Couldn't you improve throughput with the crossover or crossover and pocket setup past the terminal station with step-back crewing?

My rough thought on how this would work for a single train is:

1. Train pulls in to it's right side track at terminal station
2. The next operator gets on the train at the terminal station
3. Train pulls into an empty tail track
4. New operator immediately takes over from initial operator
5. Train pulls out into the opposite track from step 1
6. Initial operator disembarks.
7. Train leaves the station

To me it seems like if you tried to pull off something similar with a crossover before the station, every time a train leaves the station via the crossover it would block the incoming track with its movements. With the above, incoming trains can still hit the platform while the train is being reversed in the tail track once they clear the switch(es) past the terminal station.

I'll admit, I have no idea how long step 4 would take for 2 operators to do the handover, but I'm assuming one would optimize the tail track infrastructure to increase train storage past the terminal to allow for an efficient operation. Is there some kind of signal issue where a train in the tail tracks somehow impacts any train coming behind it?

Well in Montreal this summer, rode the green line to the east terminal. Train unload and then continue to the crossover and use one of the 2 stub tracks not having a train on it. A few minute later, the train sitting on the stub track pulls into the station to go west leaving an opening for the next eastbound train. Would say off hand that you are looking at less than a minute to use the crossover and to allow the waiting train to depart. What I saw was both trains sitting for about a minute before the westbound departed the stub end.

I think headway was 2:30 and seem to be time that both trains arrive at the station at the same time. Those in Montreal can tell better than me since I never time it nor do more than 2 movements. Haven't seen the ends of the other lines nor the green west end to see if this the same I saw. Could be wrong, but you may be able to get headway down to 90-120 seconds using this method.

Have seen driver swap before doing the stub end move in a few places. Driver gets on the opposite end going into the stub end and becomes the driver going the opposite direction with the other driver getting off at the station. Side platforms take more time to change drivers that you need to have 2 drivers per end with one walking from one platform to the other while the other is ready to take over of the incoming train. Centre platform would only require one driver.