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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

The surface section of Eglinton, and the in-progress section of Finch West, will have a higher tier service compared to Spadina / St Clair / Lakeshore.

Transit priority would be nice to have, but even without it, a much wider stop spacing on Eglinton and Finch will result in a better speed.

We don't need to be too concerned about accidents in the surface section affecting the line's reliability. Those kind of things are not frequent; on the other hand, fully grade-separate lines are not completely immune to accidents. It's not like the Yonge subway line never has service disruptions.
 
Rainforest said:
The surface section of Eglinton, and the in-progress section of Finch West, will have a higher tier service compared to Spadina / St Clair / Lakeshore.

Transit priority would be nice to have, but even without it, a much wider stop spacing on Eglinton and Finch will result in a better speed.

We don't need to be too concerned about accidents in the surface section affecting the line's reliability. Those kind of things are not frequent; on the other hand, fully grade-separate lines are not completely immune to accidents. It's not like the Yonge subway line never has service disruptions.
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I'm amazed that I can agree with you on one thread and disagree with you so much on another thread. As an Eglinton resident I am perfectly happy with my future LRT. As a former Scarborough resident I resented so many bus routes being routed through STC needlessly.
 
Rainforest said:
The surface section of Eglinton, and the in-progress section of Finch West, will have a higher tier service compared to Spadina / St Clair / Lakeshore.

Transit priority would be nice to have, but even without it, a much wider stop spacing on Eglinton and Finch will result in a better speed.

We don't need to be too concerned about accidents in the surface section affecting the line's reliability. Those kind of things are not frequent; on the other hand, fully grade-separate lines are not completely immune to accidents. It's not like the Yonge subway line never has service disruptions.
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I'm going to have to massively disagree with you on the front of Finch West. Finch West arguably has the problem of way too many stations. There's no reasons for instance for either Stevenson, Driftwood, or Signet-Arrow to exist. Why are there 3 stations surrounding Albion Mall?
 
sixrings said:
I'm amazed that I can agree with you on one thread and disagree with you so much on another thread. As an Eglinton resident I am perfectly happy with my future LRT. As a former Scarborough resident I resented so many bus routes being routed through STC needlessly.
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No surprise, actually. Those are two different questions. Re. Scarborough, we disagree on the relative importance of the trunk route and the reduction in transfers.

Re. Eglinton, both you and I happen to think that full grade separation is just one of the factors that determines the quality of service. Both of us understand that the very existence of dedicated transit lines matters a lot, stop spacing matters, frequency matters etc. While some other posters take a somewhat religious approach and classify a transit line based on the grade separation alone (either it must be fully separated for the whole length, or it is a streetcar).
 
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ARG1 said:
I'm going to have to massively disagree with you on the front of Finch West. Finch West arguably has the problem of way too many stations. There's no reasons for instance for either Stevenson, Driftwood, or Signet-Arrow to exist. Why are there 3 stations surrounding Albion Mall?
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Maybe, to serve highrise clusters? I passed through the area a few times, and noticed a number of highrises near Albion Mall, although I don't remember exact locations.

Anyway, the average stop spacing for Finch West (Keele to Humber) will be 11 km / 17 stops ~= 650 m. That's comparable to the central section of the BD subway, say Jane to Woodbine.

The need for each individual stop can be debated, and perhaps one or two could be dropped, but the average is still good. A removed stop would probably save ~ 1 min of travel time each way, so I am not sure a couple of stops would be worth fighting for.
 
ARG1 said:
I'm going to have to massively disagree with you on the front of Finch West. Finch West arguably has the problem of way too many stations. There's no reasons for instance for either Stevenson, Driftwood, or Signet-Arrow to exist. Why are there 3 stations surrounding Albion Mall?
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I just wonder if any of the Finch West stops (not counting Finch West Station and Humber College Station) will be "on request" stops? Will there be "STOP REQUEST" buttons and cords on the light rail vehicles?
 
hw621 said:
it's about not fully utilizing the benefits of the huge investment
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Precisely^

I don't think Eglinton Crosstown will be a bad service in Scarborough. The larger stop spacing means that the train will move quickly through this stretch where it doesn't have priority anyway. The comparison to Spadina or St Clair with their respective shorter stop-spacing is inadequate.

It's just that we could have had a full rapid-transit line in Scarborough and now we don't solely because Metrolinx isn't competent. Also double-turning trains at Laird is going to be annoying since Laird is by no means a natural transfer point.
 
WislaHD said:
Precisely^

I don't think Eglinton Crosstown will be a bad service in Scarborough. The larger stop spacing means that the train will move quickly through this stretch where it doesn't have priority anyway. The comparison to Spadina or St Clair with their respective shorter stop-spacing is inadequate.

It's just that we could have had a full rapid-transit line in Scarborough and now we don't solely because Metrolinx isn't competent. Also double-turning trains at Laird is going to be annoying since Laird is by no means a natural transfer point.
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It's the City of Toronto that's refusing to activate signal priority on Eglinton. I dont know what happened during the negotiations between Metrolinx and the city, but ultimately its the city that has the ultimate say over signal priority via the Transportation Services department.

As for the comparion so Spadina and St.Clair, its completely accurate. The only difference between those 2 and the Crosstown surface sections is the stop spacing and vehicles. Asides from that, the operations on both modes are/will be hampered by traffic signalling.
 
Amare said:
It's the City of Toronto that's refusing to activate signal priority on Eglinton. I dont know what happened during the negotiations between Metrolinx and the city, but ultimately its the city that has the ultimate say over signal priority via the Transportation Services department.
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Any idea when the negotiations happened?
 
Amare said:
As for the comparion so Spadina and St.Clair, its completely accurate. The only difference between those 2 and the Crosstown surface sections is the stop spacing and vehicles.
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The difference in stop spacing is very consequential. Spadina and St Clair have ~ 200 m between the stops, while Eglinton East will have 500-600 m.

Amare said:
Asides from that, the operations on both modes are/will be hampered by traffic signalling.
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That won't be a major factor though. The traffic lights are very widely spaced along that stretch of Eglinton. Even if the LRT gets no priority at all, the extra travel time will be small.

The stretch in question, Laird to Kennedy, is about 9 km long. Surface LRT running at 23 kph, can cover it in (9*60)/23 = 23 min. At the subway speed of 32 kph, it would be (9*60)/32 = 17 min. The extra running time is about 6 min each way.

Of course, it would be better to extend the exclusive section from Laird to Don Mills. Not so much for speed, more for the capacity management (allowing more frequent service all the way to Don Mills interchange, rather than to low-volume Laird stop).
 
Coolstar said:
Any idea when the negotiations happened?
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To be honest i'm not really sure. What i know is that there was no 1 particular date where negotiations took place. The more significant negations took place over a period of time pretty frequently a couple years back, and they still negotiate on some minor affairs to date. However, the discussions on signal priority must've taken place before the formal agreement was made between the city and Metrolinx on the line's operations.

Hopefully someone else can chime in on this particular matter.

Rainforest said:
The difference in stop spacing is very consequential. Spadina and St Clair have ~ 200 m between the stops, while Eglinton East will have 500-600 m.



That won't be a major factor though. The traffic lights are very widely spaced along that stretch of Eglinton. Even if the LRT gets no priority at all, the extra travel time will be small.

The stretch in question, Laird to Kennedy, is about 9 km long. Surface LRT running at 23 kph, can cover it in (9*60)/23 = 23 min. At the subway speed of 32 kph, it would be (9*60)/32 = 17 min. The extra running time is about 6 min each way.

Of course, it would be better to extend the exclusive section from Laird to Don Mills. Not so much for speed, more for the capacity management (allowing more frequent service all the way to Don Mills interchange, rather than to low-volume Laird stop).
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You're making it seem more inconsequential than it is. I'll put it more simply, let's say if an LRV approached an intersection where there was no signal priority activated. If a light was about to change to red and the LRV was just a couple dozen metres out, the light would change to red and the LRV would be forced to hold for the next green signal. Multiply that over the widely spaced traffic lights, that will get less widely spaced out as the Golden Mile stretch becomes more urbanized, and that results in longer travel times than what you stated above.

And that's just one instance, because the lack of signal priority comes into play in more scenarios than what I illustrated above.
 
Amare said:
To be honest i'm not really sure. What i know is that there was no 1 particular date where negotiations took place. The more significant negations took place over a period of time pretty frequently a couple years back, and they still negotiate on some minor affairs to date. However, the discussions on signal priority must've taken place before the formal agreement was made between the city and Metrolinx on the line's operations.

Hopefully someone else can chime in on this particular matter.
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Seems far-fetched but it's possible the agreement happened during Rob Ford's time as mayor as a last ditch effort to prioritize cars over LRT's since his all underground idea got shot down by council.
 
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