Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Rainforest]

first anyone heading downtown via a NS street have to currently transfer onto the bloor line anyway. so transfering sooner in the eglinton line would not create additional transfers but instead create a faster trip then currently. currently someone traveling from jane transfers once onti bloor and ince onto the younge university lines . thats a total of two transfers. the new system would have the first transfer onto eglintin and the second on the yonge university line. again two transfers.

Actually, you are right on this account.

second i mentioned a keele line simply because i think tc missed the mark by not being expansive enough. the inner suburbs and suburbs need something like the legacy line. 5 lrt lines is not the same impact.

The cost of a "Transit City" LRT or a new "legacy" line would be similar if each line is at surface and does not require much property acquisitions. So, the funding is a constraint either way, but if you've got funding, you can as well go for LRT.

Actually, Keele is a reasonable candidate if funding is awailable.

third i could agree that a jane line that turns onto eglintin could be a good idea. it could turn north again at don mills. i like the thought. however we can only redirect so many trains through the egljnton central section before there is serious confusion managin the lines. calgarys c train all share the same central portion despite some trains going NW others NE and others SW.

But if it is difficult to fit Jane (or Keele) trains into the Eglinton tunnel, it would also be difficult to fit all people dropped by Jane or Keele trains at Eglinton, onto Eglinton trains coming from the west and having a substantial load already. Eglinton isn't being designed for subway capacity.

 

[Rainforest]

Same thing with don mills. It can run LRT till eglinton and then DRL south of that to union.

This is a reasonable option. However, I think that DRL has to be operational at the same time as, or before, Don Mills LRT. Otherwise, there would be too much load on Eglinton LRT between Don Mills and Yonge. That segment will combine the flows from Eglinton East, Lawrence East (because Lawrence has a gap between Leslie and Bayview), and large Flemmington Park community; adding the northern Don Mills flow to that mix might be too much.

Again transit city seemed like a good idea because of the cost savings. People like to make it sound so expensive but that's when you qoute the central eglinton section. Instead where TC was poorly executed was that there simply weren't enough lines and the spacing could have increased to 600M.

Actually, the designed average stop spacing for Finch West LRT is about 600 m. They started it within the same design paradigm as Sheppard LRT, but because of the difference in the street character they ended up with 400 m for Sheppard, and 600 m for Finch.

 

[gweed123]

Actually, the designed average stop spacing for Finch West LRT is about 600 m. They started it within the same design paradigm as Sheppard LRT, but because of the difference in the street character they ended up with 400 m for Sheppard, and 600 m for Finch.

It also goes back to the original Lot and Concession design of the two areas. Finch West, and the N-S arterials that cross it, are in a 2km x 2km grid. Whereas, when you look at Scarborough, it's an 800m x 2km grid, with the N-S streets being much closer together.

Finch's average of 600m stop spacing allows for 2 mid-block stops, whereas Sheppard's only allows for 1. I think the difference in stop spacing as more to do with the physical layout of the cross streets vs the "street character". The majority of both streets is typical suburbia (especially west of Dufferin and east of Kennedy respectively).

 

[Amy Rose]

You certainly can build it (in fact, streetcar tracks already exist south of Queen and down to the bridge). But in mixed traffic, the route will suffer from congestion and the improvement over buses is questionable (a more comfortable ride, but likely larger gaps between the vehicles because streetcars cannot pass each other).

Seeing as an LRV carries more people per car, it would be an improvement, because its just moving the buses north and removing some, there would be some breathing room at Bloor even though the headway might increase due to excess capacity.

 

[Rainforest]

It also goes back to the original Lot and Concession design of the two areas. Finch West, and the N-S arterials that cross it, are in a 2km x 2km grid. Whereas, when you look at Scarborough, it's an 800m x 2km grid, with the N-S streets being much closer together.

Finch's average of 600m stop spacing allows for 2 mid-block stops, whereas Sheppard's only allows for 1. I think the difference in stop spacing as more to do with the physical layout of the cross streets vs the "street character". The majority of both streets is typical suburbia (especially west of Dufferin and east of Kennedy respectively).

I see; this is probably the main reason for the difference between the two projects.

 

[Rainforest]

Seeing as an LRV carries more people per car, it would be an improvement, because its just moving the buses north and removing some, there would be some breathing room at Bloor even though the headway might increase due to excess capacity.

Well, if the buses are replaced with LRV 1:1, there should be more more breathing room. But if they are replaced based on the same load/capacity ratio (this is what TTC tends to do, and it means fewer LRV than buses), then the average load factor will remain the same and the uncomfortably large gaps are likely to become more frequent.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Well, if the buses are replaced with LRV 1:1, there should be more more breathing room. But if they are replaced based on the same load/capacity ratio (this is what TTC tends to do, and it means fewer LRV than buses), then the average load factor will remain the same and the uncomfortably large gaps are likely to become more frequent.

The frequency for Transit City (as presented) was to have the same frequency as the Subway, 5± minutes during the non-rush hour and 2± minutes during the rush hours. Should the capacity of the trainset be reached, another LRV would be added to the trainset.

 

[Tuscani01]

And the traffic mess on Eglinton has started. Soil sampling is currently being done all along Eglinton, and at every future station. Multiple lanes are closed along the length of Eglinton. It has added about 10 minutes to my morning commute. Down with transit!!!!

 

[MetroMan]

It appears that a serious attempt to revive Transit City and get construction started immediately is beginning to gain traction with both the public and some councillors.

https://twitter.com/blogto/status/123754544281812993

Petition: bit.ly/rlfAqR

 

[Rainforest]

The frequency for Transit City (as presented) was to have the same frequency as the Subway, 5± minutes during the non-rush hour and 2± minutes during the rush hours. Should the capacity of the trainset be reached, another LRV would be added to the trainset.

This is correct. But let’s not forget that all Transit City routes are to run in dedicated lanes, and thus protected from congestion.

In contrast, a mixed-traffic streetcar on Dufferin would be seriously affected by congestion. Even if the scheduled average headway was 5 min, in practice much longer gaps would often occur.

 

[gweed123]

It appears that a serious attempt to revive Transit City and get construction started immediately is beginning to gain traction with both the public and some councillors.

https://twitter.com/blogto/status/123754544281812993

Petition: bit.ly/rlfAqR

I say take the TTC out of Transit Master Plans completely. Hand the planning reins over to Metrolinx, and let them coordinate it. Heck, they're already funding it, they should be able to control the projects themselves. Once the routes, the priorities, and the general design have been determined, give the TTC engineers and planners responsibility over the detailed design.

Doing this would also further insulate the transit planning process from municipal baffoons with their own anti-transit agenda.

 

[W. K. Lis]

This is correct. But let’s not forget that all Transit City routes are to run in dedicated lanes, and thus protected from congestion.

In contrast, a mixed-traffic streetcar on Dufferin would be seriously affected by congestion. Even if the scheduled average headway was 5 min, in practice much longer gaps would often occur.

If a DRL went from Dundas West Station to the downtown, it would probably have a station/stop at Dufferin/Queen West, thereby relieved some congestion on Dufferin.

 

[MetroMan]

I say take the TTC out of Transit Master Plans completely. Hand the planning reins over to Metrolinx, and let them coordinate it. Heck, they're already funding it, they should be able to control the projects themselves. Once the routes, the priorities, and the general design have been determined, give the TTC engineers and planners responsibility over the detailed design.

Doing this would also further insulate the transit planning process from municipal baffoons with their own anti-transit agenda.

I totally agree with that idea. To further thie heart of your proposal, I'd make Metrolinx an entirely apolitical group by having the board be 100% civilian. Let's plan transit according to experts in the field, not politicians looking to gain votes.

 

[gweed123]

If a DRL went from Dundas West Station to the downtown, it would probably have a station/stop at Dufferin/Queen West, thereby relieved some congestion on Dufferin.

I think the best thing to do for Dufferin for now would be to build more perpendicular routes (Eglinton, some sort of DRL), and see how that affects the route. I think in that case you'd find it would have a much higher turnover, and a more bi-directional flow than it does now. For example, someone living midway between St. Clair and Eglinton near Dufferin may choose to take the Dufferin bus up to Eglinton instead of down to Bloor. Conversely, someone getting on at Dufferin and Lawrence will only need to go to Eglinton, thereby freeing up a seat (or standing room bubble) for someone getting on at or south of Eglinton.

If Dufferin is still really crowded after all of that, then we can look at rapid transit options, which would no doubt be very expensive.

 

[gweed123]

I totally agree with that idea. To further thie heart of your proposal, I'd make Metrolinx an entirely apolitical group by having the board be 100% civilian. Let's plan transit according to experts in the field, not politicians looking to gain votes.

Thanks. Didn't they already kind of do that? I thought a couple years ago they took all the mayors on the Metrolinx board of directors and gave them the boot. Can anyone clarify?